Please consider selling Leafs in Nogales, Sonora, Mexico

[jlsoaz]

Is the Leaf for sale at this dealership? I was at the dealership a few years ago, and it was not for sale there at this time. I don't speak Spanish so it is difficult for me to tell if things are updated. I do see the Leaf mentioned on the web page, but maybe that is just a standard web page setup with no tie-in to what is available at the dealership:

https://www.nissannogales.com.mx/modelos-nissan-es-mx.htm?type=electricos

I also do not see any indication on plugshare.com that there is a charge station.

Anyway, I don't know if it's for sale there or not, but it is a city of 200,000+ people and my impression is they would like to sell the vehicle. There is a separate matter of whether the Leaf is designed from the standpoint of thermal management and battery degradation in such a way that maybe it should not be sold in Mexico, but Nissan seems to think it is ok to sell in Mexico. So, if that is true, please consider selling it in Nogales, Mexico.

It is the closest Nissan dealership to me, but as to whether I would buy one there: it is unlikely because
- I already had a very bad experience with battery degradation in my 2012 Leaf and although I'm sure Nissan has made great strides, I've heard mixed comments from other drivers as to whether a battery does well in this local climate.
- I am not getting involved with another a new vehicle (avoidance of paying the depreciation on a new vehicle is a main reason).
- I am not sure about the issues importing the vehicle to the US.

With all that said, 4 or 6 years from now, once the e+ has aged in the market and if the battery shows signs that it is doing better than I fear it might in the local climate, then would I consider buying a used one there? Yes.

 

[RonDawg]

If you use Chrome, there's an option to have it translate the page, though some things (particularly button links that are images) still remain in the original language.

It appears the Leaf is officially for sale down there as it appears on the main Nissan Mexicana website as well, under "HÍBRIDOS Y ELÉCTRICOS ". https://www.nissan.com.mx/ There are three trim levels just like us, ranging in price from 697k to 775k Pesos. That's US $36k-almost 40k. I didn't compare individual specifications to see how they compared to US models.

That said, it's going to be a tough sell at that price. The X-Trail (our Rogue) Hybrid is about 100k Pesos cheaper. A standard X-Trail is almost half the price of a base Leaf in Mexico. You can get a Murano or Pathfinder for less money. Those who need fuel economy can go with a Versa (184k Pesos/US$9500) or even a March (Micra in Canada, not sold in the US) for 184k Pesos/US $8k.

As far as importation, besides losing any Federal and possible local subsidies, keep in mind that many cars in Latin America are de-contented compared to their American-spec versions, particularly along safety lines. I don't know about the latest models, but as recently as a few years ago cheap cars like the Versa which are mandated to have airbags here did not have them across the border. That will cause you problems with importation if the car is less than 25 years old. Remember this is a country where until just a few years ago, you could buy what was essentially a 1991-1994 Nissan Sentra brand new, called the Tsuru.

 

[LeftieBiker]

If the climate there includes warm nights along with hot days, I would avoid the Leaf. If the nights cool off a lot, then you might look for a good 2015 Leaf in the US. The 2016+ Leaf has not shown any particular resistance to hotter weather...

 

[jlsoaz]

If the climate there includes warm nights along with hot days, I would avoid the Leaf. If the nights cool off a lot, then you might look for a good 2015 Leaf in the US. The 2016+ Leaf has not shown any particular resistance to hotter weather...

Thanks, I didn't know about or had forgotten about the 2016+ Leaf not showing any particular resistance to the hotter weather.

Responding to both:

Last I checked Nissan sold nearly or about 25% of the vehicles sold in Mexico. They are a real leader there. As part of being a member (at a distance) in the Tucson EV Association, we have developed some communication with EV Advocates in Hermosillo (another 2-3 hours south of Nogales I think), and those folks are EV-knowledgeable and got it done over the years, a couple of different dealerships have been selling Leafs there for awhile now. The dealerships with the stations can be seen on plugshare.com.

As to Nogales, SON, Mexico, I visited the Nissan dealership some years ago (with EV advocate EVJerry, in our Leafs) and they didn't have any Leafs for sale. Ok, but now that we are on the cusp of a longer-range Leaf, then will Nissan supply the Leaf to that dealership? I do think the dealership might have wanted to carry them, though with my lack of language ability, it's hard to say. I still do think there is a major concern around battery degradation, but this is a different question from why Nissan is picking and choosing which places and dealerships it sells the vehicles. If it is saying that it is selling Leafs in parts of Mexico regardless of any concerns around range degradation, then how is it being determined which cities are graced with the wonderfulness of Leaf availability?

To add a point to the mix, the roads are pretty bad in Nogales, SON, and perhaps there is a reluctance to sell premium vehicles there. I don't know.

 

[baustin]

In the U.S., Nissan requires the dealership to have technicians trained specifically on the LEAF before they can service or sell them. I would image it is also that way in other countries.

 

[jlsoaz]

In the U.S., Nissan requires the dealership to have technicians trained specifically on the LEAF before they can service or sell them. I would image it is also that way in other countries.

Yes, that makes sense. I have no way to know if the dealership has been offered any training, or if they have embraced it.

172 miles to the south in Hermosillo (which admittedly is a larger city) there are two dealerships, at least one of which sells or sold Leafs, per plugshare.com and one or two conversations I had a long time ago with EV Association members there.

https://www.plugshare.com/location/63830
https://www.plugshare.com/location/112735

As to Nogales, Sonora, it is smaller than Hermosillo, but there are 200,000+ residents there.

I'm guessing there could be a few factors that go into when a dealers is able to sell EVs including (perhaps):
- whether local customers push for the vehicle,
- whether the dealership wants to sell the vehicles,
- whether it wants to get into the additional equipment and training,
- whether the company in general thinks it is a good idea to sell it there,
etc.

 

[powersurge]

Believe me.... You don't want a Leaf in a desert or tropical environment.. The car will die in a year..

 

[jlsoaz]

:x

Believe me.... You don't want a Leaf in a desert or tropical environment.. The car will die in a year..

Thanks. There are a variety of climates out there. I had a Leaf here in the (somewhat) high desert (around 3500 feet) in Arizona, near the Nogales, Sonora dealership this thread is about, and while the Leaf I drove didn't die in a year, it certainly did go through its share of bar loss on what was already insufficient range for my purposes to begin with:
https://survey.pluginamerica.org/leaf/vehicle.php?vid=229

So, your point is I think over-simplified, but it is well-taken.

However, for right or for wrong, Nissan doesn't seem to be heeding the idea of avoiding all Leaf sales in all hot or somewhat-hot climates. I personally would be bit somewhat reluctant to sell Leafs in some parts of Mexico, though I'd consider it. Nissan seems to be selling Leafs there: we can see Nissan dealerships throughout Mexico (presumably some of those locations hotter than this location) which have charge stations and (I'm guessing) also sell Leafs:
https://www.plugshare.com
some random examples:
https://www.plugshare.com/location/140473
https://www.plugshare.com/location/142092
https://www.plugshare.com/location/136972

As I wrote I realized that my random look was at dealerships probably very high above sea level, so here is one that is not so high above sea level:
https://www.plugshare.com/location/135276

I do understand that Nogales, Sonora has its share of real issues and I don't know what Nissan corporate's considerations are when they make key decisions on where to sell and invest. I can think of a few counter-considerations myself which would give me pause in selling an advanced 2019 200+ mile BEV there. Still, I've spent a limited amount of time in Nogales, Sonora, and I can think of some strong arguments for doing business there, and I once visited the Nissan dealership, where I was treated quite well, and where it was my fallible impression they might be interested to sell Leafs.

So, what I'm saying here in this thread is that if Nissan is going to be such a strong leader in the Mexican market (which it is) and if they are going to sell Leafs at some dealerships there (which they apparently do) then I'd request they please consider (or re-consider) approaching the Nogales, Sonora dealership and having a constructive conversation with them about whether it would be a good idea to offer the Leaf for sale there, or hashing out what the timeline and considerations should be for all concerned to get to the point where this can be done.

 

[baustin]

I don't know how it works in Mexico, but in the USA none of the dealerships are owned by Nissan. The dealership has to initiate the process to Sell and Service the Leaf. There are Staffing and Training requirements they have to meet before being authorized to handle the Leaf. It is also possible that Nissan may not authorize any dealers to handle the Leaf in certain markets.

 

[jlsoaz]

I don't know how it works in Mexico, but in the USA none of the dealerships are owned by Nissan. The dealership has to initiate the process to Sell and Service the Leaf. There are Staffing and Training requirements they have to meet before being authorized to handle the Leaf. It is also possible that Nissan may not authorize any dealers to handle the Leaf in certain markets.

That all makes sense.

I don't know if this particular dealership has applied to Nissan, or indicated an interest, but at one time it seems to me I heard they had been interested. Whether that is correct or not, given the population growth that has taken place in that city, I do think it can't hurt for Nissan to explore if it might be a good location from which to sell Leafs.

 

[LeftieBiker]

The best way to get that dealership to ask Nissan for Leaf certification is to approach the owners with a group of people who are all committed to buying or leasing a Leaf if they do. Have an additional list of those who are seriously considering buying or leasing a new Leaf.

 

[jlsoaz]

The best way to get that dealership to ask Nissan for Leaf certification is to approach the owners with a group of people who are all committed to buying or leasing a Leaf if they do. Have an additional list of those who are seriously considering buying or leasing a new Leaf.

Ok, well, I'll take your point under advisement. This isn't in the US and not only can't I go there readily, but I know very few people over there, nor how to speak the language. I do have one or two angles I can look at though, aside from asking Nissan to look into it. Also, I'm personally not interested in getting into another new Leaf, whether Leased or financed.

 

[LeftieBiker]

If you don't want to acquire a new Leaf, and don't personally know of other people there who do, why are you so interested in getting them to sell Leafs...? I'm puzzled.

 

[baustin]

I don't know how it works in Mexico, but in the USA none of the dealerships are owned by Nissan. The dealership has to initiate the process to Sell and Service the Leaf. There are Staffing and Training requirements they have to meet before being authorized to handle the Leaf. It is also possible that Nissan may not authorize any dealers to handle the Leaf in certain markets.

That all makes sense.

I don't know if this particular dealership has applied to Nissan, or indicated an interest, but at one time it seems to me I heard they had been interested. Whether that is correct or not, given the population growth that has taken place in that city, I do think it can't hurt for Nissan to explore if it might be a good location from which to sell Leafs.

Nissan doesn't own, and can't be involved with ownership of, the dealers. There's no point in them 'exploring' areas where the vehicles may be sold. If there is not a dealer that wants to expend the capital to be Nissan authorized, then Nissan vehicles are not sold there. That's pretty much all there is to it.

 

[jlsoaz]

If you don't want to acquire a new Leaf, and don't personally know of other people there who do, why are you so interested in getting them to sell Leafs...? I'm puzzled.

Advocacy is not always about people we personally know. I'd like to see Nissan do well with EVs in Mexico, and I'd like to see my friends in Nogales, Sonora have access to good new cars.

 

[jlsoaz]

Nissan doesn't own, and can't be involved with ownership of, the dealers. There's no point in them 'exploring' areas where the vehicles may be sold. If there is not a dealer that wants to expend the capital to be Nissan authorized, then Nissan vehicles are not sold there. That's pretty much all there is to it.

Hi -

Are you offering this as information that you have reason to believe is correct, about how things work in Mexico, where Nissan is the leader in light duty vehicle sales?

 

[LeftieBiker]

If you don't want to acquire a new Leaf, and don't personally know of other people there who do, why are you so interested in getting them to sell Leafs...? I'm puzzled.

Advocacy is not always about people we personally know. I'd like to see Nissan do well with EVs in Mexico, and I'd like to see my friends in Nogales, Sonora have access to good new cars.

As long as you have friends there who want a Leaf, that's fine. Just remember that it's hard to impose change - even positive change - entirely from the outside.

 

[jlsoaz]

If you don't want to acquire a new Leaf, and don't personally know of other people there who do, why are you so interested in getting them to sell Leafs...? I'm puzzled.

Advocacy is not always about people we personally know. I'd like to see Nissan do well with EVs in Mexico, and I'd like to see my friends in Nogales, Sonora have access to good new cars.

As long as you have friends there who want a Leaf, that's fine. Just remember that it's hard to impose change - even positive change - entirely from the outside.

It's not a bad point, but I've been at this since the 90s and am accustomed to guarding my stamina by assuming a low batting average for a lot of ideas. On this one, I'm not going to require of myself that I know people who want a Leaf here in town, though I'll take the point that it weakens the case. I will say if the dealership did start offering them, I wouldn't be surprised to end up having a number of conversations (including a few on the US side) as to pros/cons of buying. Not to be unappreciative of the various inputs, but this is the part of the forum notionally carved out for suggestions to Nissan, and in my mind that's my main focus. ... I think there's a possibility that it could be in their interest to consider selling the Leaf here. I get that other forum participants may comment on the suggestion, and they may make good points, and I'll take them if I see it that way, but that doesn't change that fundamentally they're not the main party I'm addressing.

My main reservation on this idea is that if Nissan did start offering Leafs at the dealership I would have to caution my friends against paying the depreciation on a new vehicle whose battery may not do well in our local climate. It's a very strong reservation actually and I almost wish I didn't start the thread because of it.

Background on this suggestion includes Nissan's leading role in Mexico and I've seen other towns where the Leaf is now for sale after some advocacy, though that was different in various ways. Also, as mentioned, it was my fallible impression awhile back the local dealership might be interested.

Also, a friend took me in her car for a brief drive there to take some pictures of some charge stations at a local hotel (the Mexican side got the stations before a single proper hard-wired station was installed on the US side, or even before a US hotel in town activated a single plug on plugshare). One of the points that really struck me was how awful the streets are, and maybe how that ties in to how few really good cars I see. It got me to wondering about the wisdom of driving a $80k Tesla to that hotel to use the stations, or the wisdom of taking a $40k MSRP EV on the streets there. My friend indicated they have some local words to describe what the streets do to cars there.

[edit]: Background also includes fairly strong population growth in that town over the last 10-20 years:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nogales,_Sonora

 

[LeftieBiker]

Do you want that second post, empty except for the quote, removed?

Not to try to discourage you, but there is a second point of information I need to pass along: Nissan rarely listens to requests these days, or if they do, they ignore them. This wasn't always true, as the 2013 "V1.2" Leaf incorporated several suggestions from this site and from their Leaf Advisory Group. Since then, however, we have little to no evidence that Nissan pays any attention at all to this site. (Well, maybe my long-ago request that the Recirculate mode be operative in the Floor + Defrost vent mode.) They once again have a so-called advisory group made up of Leaf drivers, but the second version of the group now constituted, has, rumor has it, only very minimal input into changes to the cars or to corporate policy. The best evidence of this is that, despite constant pleas from Leaf drivers in the US, there is still no variable or 80% charge limit option.

 

[baustin]

Nissan doesn't own, and can't be involved with ownership of, the dealers. There's no point in them 'exploring' areas where the vehicles may be sold. If there is not a dealer that wants to expend the capital to be Nissan authorized, then Nissan vehicles are not sold there. That's pretty much all there is to it.

Hi -

Are you offering this as information that you have reason to believe is correct, about how things work in Mexico, where Nissan is the leader in light duty vehicle sales?

That is how it is in the USA. Car manufacturers do not sell direct to consumers, except for Tesla. Many states in the USA require the dealership system, and do not allow car manufacturers to own or operate dealerships. My assumption is Mexico is similar, but I do not know. The staffing and training requirements to sell and service the Leaf are a Nissan corporate requirement. If a Nissan dealer does not sell and service the Leaf, they either are unable or unwilling to meet the necessary requirements, or Nissan does not want to sell the Leaf through that dealer.