Poll : Number of miles before losing the first bar

[powersurge]

PS - I have 69K miles and still have 90 % SOH

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

PS - I have 69K miles and still have 90 % SOH

Its actually John's car. I have a Plus.

 

[Kogoyo]

New to the forum, owner of the same 2013 Leaf (built dec 2012) for 6+ years. Bought it one y o with 2500 km (1500 miles). Lost my first cap bar on March 30th 2018 at 137 367 km (85 374 miles). I QC several times a month, never leave it fully charged, always charge to 80% if arriving home with low percentage. Still have 11 cap bars and now with 201 895 km (125 479 miles). Expecting to lose second bar any day now. Dont have Leafspy, cant check SOH. My range is 120 km (75 miles) on country roads, summer-ish time.
I live in southern half of Sweden.

 

[arnis]

Update from Estonia:

Wohoo. Summer came sooner and BMS started dropping SOC and Hx values since then.
Lost first bar today at 173 166 km or 107 600 miles Vehicle is exactly 6 years old
I hope for first place price

Likely SOC will go up in late autumn as always. I should mention that actual range did not drop
15% like SOC says. I would say closer to 10% of range loss. Maybe 12%
Drop happened at 84,65% SOH and 80.01% Hx. Likely stats will go up again in late autumn, like they always do.
Vehicle was pretty much always charged to 80%. 211 QC sessions. 80% of those for 10 minutes. 10% for 20 minutes.

 

[Reticuli]

Still haven't lost my second bar yet. Lost the first one around 80K miles. I am at 124K miles now and leaf spy says that I am at 78.2% SOH. Should be this spring.

I have owned my 2013 leaf since it was new. Still running great. No maintenance.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

You can't complain about that. If you think that back in 2013 when we bought our Leafs, the 2011s were already losing bars...so 120k miles is pretty awesome.

 

[SageBrush]

You can't complain about that.

Are you kidding ?
It is a *terrible* result, to lose 22% of range in 6-8 years.

That others are worse is a fool's consolation. And for context, consider this: that is one of the better car results yet if falls 5 years shy of the Nissan promises of longevity.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

You can't complain about that.

Are you kidding ?
It is a *terrible* result, to lose 22% of range in 6-8 years.

That others are worse is a fool's consolation. And for context, consider this: that is one of the better car results yet if falls 5 years shy of the Nissan promises of longevity.

SOH does not equal capacity. 2 bars lost would imply a 21¼% loss

 

[SageBrush]

You can't complain about that.

Are you kidding ?
It is a *terrible* result, to lose 22% of range in 6-8 years.

That others are worse is a fool's consolation. And for context, consider this: that is one of the better car results yet if falls 5 years shy of the Nissan promises of longevity.

SOH does not equal capacity. 2 bars lost would imply a 21¼% loss

lol

 

[downeykp]

How about the least amount of miles and the most bars lost.
My 2011 is at 38,000 mi. and have lost 7 bars.

 

[BrockWI]

We also have a 2018 Tesla M3 and now after 3 years and 40k miles it has lost 3.61% based on original mileage when new. The Leaf after 3 years and 40k miles was down 6.55%. I am not complaining at all our 2013 Leaf is at 115k and currently down 27.08%, I can say there is no way our Tesla will ever catch our Leaf for total cost per mile driven, but then again we can only drive our Leaf about 45 miles max (in winter) right now Perfect for the kids to run to practice and work and charge whenever it is home. I can add the Leaf chews through tires faster than the Tesla, which is weird and yes they are both aligned...

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

We also have a 2018 Tesla M3 and now after 3 years and 40k miles it has lost 3.61% based on original mileage when new. The Leaf after 3 years and 40k miles was down 6.55%. I am not complaining at all our 2013 Leaf is at 115k and currently down 27.08%, I can say there is no way our Tesla will ever catch our Leaf for total cost per mile driven, but then again we can only drive our Leaf about 45 miles max (in winter) right now Perfect for the kids to run to practice and work and charge whenever it is home. I can add the Leaf chews through tires faster than the Tesla, which is weird and yes they are both aligned...

Good results but you have two diverging events going on.

Small pack means greater degradation in most cases due to deeper cycling, charging to100% etc. over the larger pack. Big packs typically "lose" a chunk in the first year or so but in most cases, the degradation brings them down to 100% of their rated capacity. We only vaguely know what that means since the capacity is based on a testing parameter that only a handful of people in the entire country drive like so its all about metrics. Even thinking we know what our range was when new is likely more assumptions based on a handful of inconclusive results.

 

[BrockWI]

Dave I totally agree. I am not sure how much it plays in to it, but until about 80k miles I rarely charged to 100% and slowly I have had to charge it to 100% more and more and definitely cycling it way more often and further than the Tesla. In the Leaf it is not uncommon to use 80% or more of the battery range daily. Often on weekends we drive 100+ miles charging a lot to do this.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Dave I totally agree. I am not sure how much it plays in to it, but until about 80k miles I rarely charged to 100% and slowly I have had to charge it to 100% more and more and definitely cycling it way more often and further than the Tesla. In the Leaf it is not uncommon to use 80% or more of the battery range daily. Often on weekends we drive 100+ miles charging a lot to do this.

Your avoiding full charges is how you were able to get so much from the car. In the past decade, the ONE thing I realized the most is you can't buy based on your need. You need to get a car that is AT LEAST 2X the range you will use on a semi regular basis. Tesla got this. No one else did.

Nissan designed an 80 mile LEAF based on a 40 mile average commute. Well, hate to say it Nissan but we sleep 8 hours, work 8 hours so that leaves us 8 hours to drive around but you designed a car that won't cover that part of the day. It only took you 9 years to figure out that an EV needs multiple range options to be successful and while you were figuring that out, nearly everyone passed you by.

 

[SageBrush]

We only vaguely know what that means since the capacity is based on a testing parameter that only a handful of people in the entire country drive like so its all about metrics. Even thinking we know what our range was when new is likely more assumptions based on a handful of inconclusive results.

I cannot speak for all EVs but in the case of Tesla your statements are hogwash:
The drop in range after the ~ first year matches *exactly* the drop in usable battery capacity.
The first year is an anomaly because Tesla hides some range that gets used up as the battery 'settles in.**'

Buy a Tesla;
Look at SMT Canbus data.
Then you will have a clue.

** I think this is the SEI formation phase but I'm not positive.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Battery capacity can easily be determined by applying a load at full charge and draining it to the lowest rest voltage it can tolerate, while measuring the current flow. It has nothing to do with range testing.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

We only vaguely know what that means since the capacity is based on a testing parameter that only a handful of people in the entire country drive like so its all about metrics. Even thinking we know what our range was when new is likely more assumptions based on a handful of inconclusive results.

I cannot speak for all EVs but in the case of Tesla your statements are hogwash:
The drop in range after the ~ first year matches *exactly* the drop in usable battery capacity.
The first year is an anomaly because Tesla hides some range that gets used up as the battery 'settles in.**'

Buy a Tesla;
Look at SMT Canbus data.
Then you will have a clue.

** I think this is the SEI formation phase but I'm not positive.

I'm glad everything has worked out for you but for the rest of us, EPA is a test using a driving method we are not "familiar" with. As far as that, I see just as many Teslatonians as any other EVer complaining about real world range.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

BrockWI,

Are you determining your loss from Teslafi, or simply by the remaining rated miles? Does the 3.78% account for the efficiency changes due to software updates (which changes the constant)? Just curious.

As to M3 buffer Sage, in the Tesla forums there seems to belief that the buffer in the early M3 was removed or converted to published range a year or two later.
No clue whether there is evidence to support that or not.

 

[BrockWI]

Yes I pulled the number from Teslafi, I think it was higher in "a better route planner", like 4.1% or something, but abrp only shows you that number after supercharging. I never look at the "miles", to me that is a GOM so I only look at battery % or mi/kWh

I did recently get "Scan my Tesla", but I can't seem to get a soc or Hx number out of that, but it could be I don't know where to look.

I can say that SMT shows about 2% more than the car does and it shows 2 kWh hidden. I did recently run from Minneapolis to Wausau, 188 miles without stopping in 18F weather with some snow and ran it from 94% to 0%, I should have stopped in Eau Claire but was feeling lucky, In summer I have made that same run from 90% to 25%.

I am all for any electric vehicle and choosing the right one for the task at hand. I will admit though the supercharger network (at least around here) is leaps and bounds ahead of CCS, so many more stalls and I have yet to come across a broken one.

 

[SageBrush]

I'm glad everything has worked out for you but for the rest of us, EPA is a test using a driving method we are not "familiar" with. As far as that, I see just as many Teslatonians as any other EVer complaining about real world range.

That has jack to do with ability to monitor battery capacity