SHENZHEN FACTORY TECHNOLOGY battery packs- is it real?

[Ryan]

The charge power is only restricted by the original VCM. According to Nissan, the maximum charge power of AZE0 is 46kW DC. Only those batteries with good Hx can charge with the maximum charge power. I research hard Your temperature bars are even far from the red zone yet. Just back from my holiday and installed mine.

 

[ginetto]

View attachment 5214
Battery started at 27.2°C ended on 42°C which triggered the limited motor power output.
View attachment 5215

About temperature concern:
1) I can see that power start to reduce after 70/75 SOC % that is could be normal also with 62kWh packs and dropping to 20kW when reching 80%. My experience with 62kWh pack is that start to drop at 80% SOC. BTW not so great difference.
2) power limitation e.g. how much kW can be drained from the battery at 40 degrees, is NOT common nor in 62 or 40 packs.
3) without knowing what are the reprogrammed parameters, seems that the base firmware still have the "rapid gate" option in place. NOTE: nor I know parameters inside the OEM leaf BMS that demonstrate to be not reliable at all allowing fast degradation and swelling of their cells
4) because you bought a closed pack @Riore (am I wrong?) we do not know, nor you, where temperature sensors are placed nor how temp will be distributed. e.g. we do not have any idea if they are measuring rear modules, central or front one. Hopefully they should mound them in the same places of the EOM 62kWh pack to use the same temp diffusion models to extrapolate temp module of the entire pack. NOTE: I would say that nissan model is completely unreliable due to swelling cells I saw also in 62kWh EOM packs

my 2c

 

[ginetto]

The charge power is only restricted by the original VCM. According to Nissan, the maximum charge power of AZE0 is 46kW DC. Only those batteries with good Hx can charge with the maximum charge power. I research hard Your temperature bars are even far from the red zone yet. Just back from my holiday and installed mine.

1) From VIVNE or Yaste or what else?
2) with can bridge or BMS reprogram?
3) entire pack or kit to be mounted?
Plase share photos and test @Ryan and thank you

 

[kmcmahan]

Hello All It has been a very busy month. I had to pull away from my project of repairing my 62 kWh battery from China. I now have some time and will get back to it. It is an AUG battery bought through Robert Luo. I have it out out car, the case is open and I am working with an Engineer from AUG. I will give a full report when the trouble shooting is completed and the battery is back in the car.

 

[Riore]

Helen from Vivne has instructed me to change the coolant as it could be an over temperature issue related to the inverter, motor or coolant system. The coolant probably is the original from manufacturing and is due for a flush. Next time I'll check the DTC of it occurs again. Today I did a fast charge from 13% to 52% and the temperature went from 21°C to 32°C. I didn't get any screen captures as I wasn't near the vehicle while charging but the receipt says:

Total Cost 20.70 AUD
Net Amount 18.82 AUD
Tax (GST 10.00%) 1.88 AUD
Max Session Power 46.5176 kW Max DC Power
Start Time Sep 22, 2024, 9:05:50 AM
End Time Sep 22, 2024, 9:44:03 AM
Total Energy 26.2020 kWh

 

[MikeinPA]

Hello All It has been a very busy month. I had to pull away from my project of repairing my 62 kWh battery from China. I now have some time and will get back to it. It is an AUG battery bought through Robert Luo. I have it out out car, the case is open and I am working with an Engineer from AUG. I will give a full report when the trouble shooting is completed and the battery is back in the car.

Thanks! Can we get pictures of the cells/modules, location of temperature sensors, and how the cells/modules are connected? Close up of cells/modules so we can attempt to ID them? Dala has a great point, that the CATL cells he is aware of cannot support the amperage requirements of some Leafs. The other concern is how these cells/modules are tied together--are the connections engineered correctly?
This is not idle curiosity--overheating cell terminals or the cell itself is going to damage the cells, increase their resistance over time, and make them heat up even more. With only 3 temp sensors in the pack, most of these cells are unobserved.

 

[EVPowers]

Did you happen to notice that in some of the recent pics and videos of some suppliers packs the main disconnect is held down with only doubled sided adhesive pad?

Same for the battery control module.

Should be fine, right? But hey, you get the battery for cheap. The extra risk is work the savings. /s

 

[DavidMW]

My understanding is that the Leaf manages the charging rate, regardless of the available power at the charging point. My Leaf charges at a maximum of about 45kWh up to around 60%, beyond which the charging rate gradually reduces. By the time you reach 90% the charge rate is less than 10kWh. So there's little point in charging beyond 80-90% at public rapid chargers. The shortage of Chademo chargers means you're likely to keep others waiting!
I generally only charge to 100% at home on 7kW chargers. The charging rate still drops a bit as you approach 100%. It's a 2018 car so 6 years old, and the battery is still reading excellent.

 

[ginetto]

these are the teck specification for 180 and 174 Ah CATL modules distributed by yaste.tech, or at least that they shared. I suppose, but I can;t be sure, are the same modules used in vivne kit.
What I can see is that are "normal" ev modules with 2c max discharge with 2.6c/30s peack discharge and a common 1c CV charge.
I see that voltage range of a single cell is between 2.8v and 4.35v.
Note that 180Ah document is not signed nor have any revision, so IMHO can't be verified.

 

[Ryan]

1) From VIVNE or Yaste or what else?
2) with can bridge or BMS reprogram?
3) entire pack or kit to be mounted?
Plase share photos and test @Ryan and thank you

I got my 50kwh pack from Helen in Vivne. It's entire pack. Helen told me the new reprogrammed BMS was already installed in the pack to me. Installation is not hard, but need some equipment to lift batteries, removing old and installing new. Then I got my new range! I'm usually a very busy guy, not sure I will have time to do various tests for you guys. But I do love my new LEAF now.

 

[Ianlighting]

these are the teck specification for 180 and 174 Ah CATL modules distributed by yaste.tech, or at least that they shared. I suppose, but I can;t be sure, are the same modules used in vivne kit.
What I can see is that are "normal" ev modules with 2c max discharge with 2.6c/30s peack discharge and a common 1c CV charge.
I see that voltage range of a single cell is between 2.8v and 4.35v.
Note that 180Ah document is not signed nor have any revision, so IMHO can't be verified.

Regarding the modules used the different sellers, I think what Yaste uses is different to Vivne. Possibly Vivne used the same initially.

Yaste’s 180Ah modules are all a consistent size. Whereas Vivne’s (labelled A, B, C, etc) vary depending on position in the pack, which I took to mean they use a smaller size cell and pack more in to the differently labelled modules, based on available space.

I’d like to see under the thin black plastic cover of Vivne’s modules if anyone has an image or video.

All slight supposition, and happy for anyone to correct this.

 

[EVPowers]

You really don't know what modules are being used in each pack. Even if a certain module is used today, this could change next month to a different cell. So even if we get some testing feedback from people now, it may not have any bearing on packs that come after it.

 

[MikeinPA]

You really don't know what modules are being used in each pack. Even if a certain module is used today, this could change next month to a different cell. So even if we get some testing feedback from people now, it may not have any bearing on packs that come after it.

Regarding cell/module sourcing, a giant red flag is the super low cost per kwh in the finished pack. Around $100/kwh, which means cell/module costs need to be less, maybe a lot less.

 

[MozzoAU]

With regards the recommendation by VIVNE to change the coolant, I'm not sure if it will make any difference. The high temperature issue appears to be the battery pack, not the charger, inverter or PDM. I'm still leaning towards the old rapidgate problem. Not sure why it seems worse than the OEM battery though as the newer chemistry should behave better than this.

 

[jayyzz]

I also saw his dash and leafspy. The temp. seems reasonable. Only 8 bars in dash. "turtle" will not come out in this temp. Nissan declares "turtle" only comes out when 1. low power 2. extreme low temp. -20℃ 3. EV system high temp. (motor,inverter,coolant system and battery etc.) Exclude the battery problem. Judging from the remaining options, the coolant system is most possibly to have problem.

 

[Ianlighting]

I also saw his dash and leafspy. The temp. seems reasonable. Only 8 bars in dash. "turtle" will not come out in this temp. Nissan declares "turtle" only comes out when 1. low power 2. extreme low temp. -20℃ 3. EV system high temp. (motor,inverter,coolant system and battery etc.) Exclude the battery problem. Judging from the remaining options, the coolant system is most possibly to have problem.

Call me suspicious, but you've joined the forum today to comment on this specific thread and to agree with the supplier in China that its not a problem with a battery... Tell me why I'm a cynical old git

 

[Miliki]

Entiendo que la gente quiera mejorar la autonomía de sus coches, pero poner una batería de la misma capacidad que antes simplifica la instalación y los riesgos. Si tienes un coche de 40 de capacidad, pon una batería de 40 de capacidad y no haría falta ni siquiera poner una Cambridge. Si estabas contento cuando lo compraste con una batería de 24 de capacidad, renuévala y sigue siendo feliz.

 

[cornbinder89]

Entiendo que la gente quiera mejorar la autonomía de sus coches, pero poner una batería de la misma capacidad que antes simplifica la instalación y los riesgos. Si tienes un coche de 40 de capacidad, pon una batería de 40 de capacidad y no haría falta ni siquiera poner una Cambridge. Si estabas contento cuando lo compraste con una batería de 24 de capacidad, renuévala y sigue siendo feliz.

Unfortunately it is not that simple. Nissan (USA anyway) has discontinued the 24 KWh pack and the 30 KWh pack. You can't buy new of what the (earlier) cars came with.
At least here our options are:
1) buy used/reconditioned packs with cells matched for best match
2) buy used from wrecked vehicle
3) buy new 40KWh pack from Leaf Repair network
4) buy new from China, pay the import duty and take your chances.
All but the last have local companies to hold accountable if there is a problem.
Number four is cheaper for new cells,
number 2 can be the cheapest option but is hard to know what you are getting, often sold "as is where is".

 

[MikeinPA]

Call me suspicious, but you've joined the forum today to comment on this specific thread and to agree with the supplier in China that its not a problem with a battery... Tell me why I'm a cynical old git

Judging from the remaining options, the coolant system is most possibly to have problem.

"is most possibly to have problem" sounds most possibly to be not USA English dialect

 

[noelho]

62 kWh Leaf Plus can go higher. https://insideevs.com/news/495913/nissan-leaf-dc-fast-charging-curve/ got to 69 kW. Some other folks have gotten a tad bit higher with CHAdeMO. Ditto for those using CCS to CHAdeMO adapters using a Plus on a high enough powered CCS station.

Sorry, i should clarify, that i was referring to AZE0 models.

You should ask VIVNE about this, they have videos where their batteries warm up to 48°C without power limiting. It's not even in the red zone of the temperature meter.

Just finished watching this video and parts 2 and 3 as well. This is part 3:



Description from the video:

Finally, we successfully completed the third fast charging test. The outdoor temperature was 40℃, the SOC was charged from 4.9% to 100%, and the battery temperature rose from 35°C to 51°C. The battery was charged at a high power of 39.33kw for 43 minutes. During this period, the temperature rose by 13°C.

We summarized and analyzed the results of the three tests, we got 2 conclusions as below:
1) The temperature changes during fast charging. Combined with the SOC before fast charging, the temperature and temperature rise values after three tests of fast charging are very stable, and did not exceed the operating temperature range of CATL cells(-20~55℃). It's also did not reach the limit value of Leaf VCM suspending charging

2) The maximum fast charging power can reach 39kw, and its continuous running time is also very stable, it’s about 40 minutes (Nissan officially stated that the fast charging power is 36kw when the SOC is 10-80%)

If everyone want to see more test videos about Leaf battery, just comment below or contact me directly, we will try our best to do it!

Thoughts? Especially the part about fast charging going up to 36kw only??? I assume this is for AZE0 cars only. I could have sworn i've seen my LeafSpy report higher speeds but maybe i was just imagining it??

EDIT: Riore's app reported peak 46.5176 kW charge too!