Should I buy a 73k mile 2018 SL?

[gozer]

hello, all. A Newbie here. Should I buy it AND then use it as my commuter? I'm glad its an SL but with the 40KW battery I'm nervous about range as I live 50 miles away from work, all highway. Not very hilly. (Rt. 87 in upstate NY). There is an alternate route, 50-55 mph and quite flat, but some of it is bumpy. Car is a one owner, not much wear on the interior. Two new michelins on front, half worn on the rear. New 12v battery and new brakes all around. The onboard SOH says 12 bars (I find that hard to believe). What say you?

 

[BillAinCT]

Not knowing the SOH but guessing it's down at least 10%, winter time in upstate NY your round trip will likely not be possible, or at least a very stressful or cold drive home from work. The SL is nice - too bad it's not a 62kWh battery (if that was made back then).

 

[Chad E. Mo]

That's cutting it awfully close.

My work is also 50 miles away and yesterday's round-trip used 35kWh measured at the wall outlet. The temperature was about 60F, driving mostly 65mph.

In cold weather, I'd expect to use 25% more.
Driving 50-55 mph, I'd expect to use 25% less

I'd do it if I could charge at work.
I'd consider it, if there are chargepoints along the way to provide some extra reassurance.
This assumes the battery is in good health.

 

[rogersleaf]

I had a '19 SL with a 40KWh pack and drive a 37 mile (one-way) commute on about 50/50 expressway vs urban driving into Cleveland. Summer time there should not be a problem making that distance. Winter it won't make it once the air temps drop below @ 20F. That doesn't mean don't get the car. Do you have a "Plan B" for charging on your commute route or at work? That charging might not be much but enough to complete your commute. Do you have an alternate vehicle to use on those really cold days? My case have a truck that would take if really bad and just wanted to leave the LEAF in the garage to keep the batteries warm. Also, do you have a garage to protect that LEAF from severe cold? Not necessary but It helps.

 

[gozer]

Thank you all for the info! I do have public charging station a short walk from work so that could give me the needed extra range in the winter. I'm worried more about the traction battery lifespan. I have other leafs to look at but they are in VT. and have the big battery. I do have a garage and access to an ICE car if needed.
The dealer has a few leafs, the others are CPO and have 13k to 30k miles. I was interested in a '22 S with 13k miles but then I was concerned about the range, etc

 

[rogersleaf]

Thank you all for the info! I do have public charging station a short walk from work so that could give me the needed extra range in the winter. I'm worried more about the traction battery lifespan. I have other leafs to look at but they are in VT. and have the big battery. I do have a garage and access to an ICE car if needed.
The dealer has a few leafs, the others are CPO and have 13k to 30k miles. I was interested in a '22 S with 13k miles but then I was concerned about the range, etc

Will just share the LeafSpy stats from when I traded my '19 (they are posted in the 40KWh battery thread). Basically the car had almost 92K miles and was @ 84% State of Health (meaning it lost 16% capacity in those 5 years). In LeafSpy the battery was very healthy and cells looked well balanced. During the 5 years I owned that LEAF, I did not baby the battery. It was charged on L2 to 100% nightly and driven daily on that 80 mile/day commute in all weather conditions found in NE Ohio (100F heat to -15F brutal cold). The only thing limited was rarely using DCFC, and then only to rewarm a cold battery (see below).

In cold weather it would occasionally show some concerns, which was directly related to the core temperature of the pack dropping in the cold (battery temps under @ 40-35F). The common quirk you will read about is "Hey... it was 10F today and was on the on the expressway with the heat cranked to keep the windshield clear when my battery charge dropped from 30% to very low charge warning in a couple miles." An important aspect of LEAF's battery design in northern climates is it lacks an external heating mechanism to maintain healthy working temperatures while being operated in sub-freezing cold. Thus, it's possible to have an electrical draw greater than the (cold) battery can supply, which drops the battery pack voltage to where the car believe the battery is low on charge. It's the same basic concept as your cell phone turning into a brick in the cold. If you can understand that limitation (call it an engineering constraint) and manage that limitation (inside storage, DCFC to rewarm, extra charging access, etc...) this LEAF can be an excellent car.

Just add, would avoid any LEAFs that do not have the cold weather enhancements (heated seats, heated steering wheel), and preferably with a heat pump HVAC system. That means passing on "S" trims and double checking any SV's for the added equipment. I had test driven an SV that lacked that package on a 25F snowy night, it was a miserable 15 minutes to where I passed until they got better choices.

 

[gozer]

OK, Rogersleaf, are you saying when its quite cold I can get an alarm that means I cannot drive the car? If that message comes up and I'm 15 miles out, what do I do? Or is it an 'ignorable' message?
Thnks.

 

[rogersleaf]

OK, Rogersleaf, are you saying when its quite cold I can get an alarm that means I cannot drive the car? If that message comes up and I'm 15 miles out, what do I do? Or is it an 'ignorable' message?
Thnks.

Yes, it's possible for the voltage drop to trigger progressive alerts/alarms for "Low Battery Warning", then "Very Low Battery Warning" then into "Turtle" mode where it's beginning to shut down. With any EV on low charge, get your power consumption down quickly by reducing speeds and turning off the heat. The situation is unnerving but likely manageable if catch it quick enough.

In my case, the car was parked outside at an employer's lot in teen F temps for 2 days where it was thoroughly cold-soaked. Heading home late at night it was cold, running a lot of heat, driving expressway speeds, then came to a significant uphill grade. The SOC dropped from @ 35% into the low battery alarms within a couple miles. Fortunately, wasn't left stranded. Decided to exit the expressway where regen braking boosted the battery system voltage enough to reset the system. Then took back roads home (3-4 miles) where the electrical draw was much less. After that event, was never able to duplicate the problem. Had the car through 2 more winters without any further events but was much more protective with the battery temps.

 

[Jerther]

One sure thing, don't rely on dcfc everyday in winter. That is going to wear the battery pretty quick and in very cold weather the car limits power to limit damage to the battery (lithium plating ) and it can be very slow. I've seen as low as 11kw.

If you can get a l2 charger at work, it would be ideal! ☺️

 

[gozer]

Rogersleaf, Thanks for the detail on exactly what happened, it makes sense to me.
Jerther, Yes, thanks a lot. DCFC is not what I am counting on at all, L2 is avail near my work and it's even free! Being from Quebec, do you ever wear a battery heated vest in the winter to stay warm in the car? The kind you charge at home. I'm thinking of using one to help extend range when its really cold.

 

[Kenny]

hello, all. A Newbie here. Should I buy it AND then use it as my commuter? I'm glad it’s an SL but with the 40KW battery I'm nervous about range as I live 50 miles away from work, all highway. Not very hilly. (Rt. 87 in upstate NY). There is an alternate route, 50-55 mph and quite flat, but some of it is bumpy. Car is a one owner, not much wear on the interior. Two new michelins on front, half worn on the rear. New 12v battery and new brakes all around. The onboard SOH says 12 bars (I find that hard to believe). What say you?

I have the same car and live in southern Ontario. I have over 100,000 miles and have all bars still. Your Leaf will not make your commute in winter if it’s 50 miles one way. Look for a newer Leaf+ for your ride. Also take a look at Leafs from Canada. The US dollar is much higher than ours so you might find a smoking deal up here.

 

[Jerther]

@gozer never thought about heated vest. Not sure it is worth it though. From the full battery cycles I've had to do recently, I've seen that the heating system pulls at most 5kw when it's on full power so if you preheat the car while it's pulling power from an evse before leaving (using timers, or the unreliable app) and leave with the climate control set to minimum which is 18c, the power used by the heating system is not that bad. And 18c is not exactly hot but warm enough. The heated seats and steering wheel do a lot for comfort.

Turning climate control off entirely in winter causes frost in windows 😉

So the least I've done with my current defective 40kwh battery is 90km, from 100% to about 5. It was a very cold day around -20c and I did pretty much only highway.

On a typical winter trip to work (highway, hills, 110km/h) I need at most 40% to travel 50km. I should be able to make the trip back home fine but I don't trust the battery under 40% but it's going to get replaced under warranty.

Any trip in weather over 10c is fine and I get reliable range.

Hope that helps ☺️

 

[gozer]

Thanks for the reply! I bring up the heated vest because of motorcycle experience.
My father in law goes for walks with one fall winter and spring and it makes a world of difference. Several hours of heat on internal battery. I'm now looking at an S+ with 27k miles.
How defective is your battery? I have been told the 2nd gen battery is much better as far as degredetion is concerned.

 

[BillAinCT]

leave with the climate control set to minimum which is 18c, the power used by the heating system is not that bad.

I agree. You can also lower the temperature to keep the resistive heat off (on an Plus in the energy display it jumps from 3-4 bars to 6+ with resistive heat) and slowly increase the temperature. I've done very well heating up to 66F this way with the heat pump only. If it's very cold out you can't go low enough to avoid resistive heat so preheating is best.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Rogersleaf, Thanks for the detail on exactly what happened, it makes sense to me.
Jerther, Yes, thanks a lot. DCFC is not what I am counting on at all, L2 is avail near my work and it's even free! Being from Quebec, do you ever wear a battery heated vest in the winter to stay warm in the car? The kind you charge at home. I'm thinking of using one to help extend range when its really cold.

My last Winter at work I used a 12 volt heated blanket, wrapped around my legs and body from the waist down, to help me run low heat while driving home from work in the we hours. It really helped, and likely used less power than a heated vest, while keeping more of me warm.

 

[Bombastinator2]

That's cutting it awfully close.

My work is also 50 miles away and yesterday's round-trip used 35kWh measured at the wall outlet. The temperature was about 60F, driving mostly 65mph.

In cold weather, I'd expect to use 25% more.
Driving 50-55 mph, I'd expect to use 25% less

I'd do it if I could charge at work.
I'd consider it, if there are chargepoints along the way to provide some extra reassurance.
This assumes the battery is in good health.

Sounds iffy to commute with then. It will do it but for who knows how long? There may be no more than a year or two left on that battery for you. I would look for something with a little more range left in it, unless you can find a way to charge at work. Even if it’s just a regular outlet on phase 1. If you can get that then it’s fine.

 

[Bombastinator2]

hello, all. A Newbie here. Should I buy it AND then use it as my commuter? I'm glad it’s an SL but with the 40KW battery I'm nervous about range as I live 50 miles away from work, all highway. Not very hilly. (Rt. 87 in upstate NY). There is an alternate route, 50-55 mph and quite flat, but some of it is bumpy. Car is a one owner, not much wear on the interior. Two new michelins on front, half worn on the rear. New 12v battery and new brakes all around. The onboard SOH says 12 bars (I find that hard to believe). What say you?

Load LeafSpy lite on your phone and buy a dongle to make the app work. Then you can find out in what shape the battery is really in if you can snag a power outlet at work and charge it phase1 while yore there you should be good. If not think about something with more range. Phase1 is slow,but it works given enough time. You don’t need to completely refill it, just give it a bump.

 

[gozer]

You are all giving me excellent ideas, thank you very much! I agree the small battery probably will need a lot of work-arounds.

 

[Bombastinator2]

You are all giving me excellent ideas, thank you very much! I agree the small battery probably will need a lot of work-arounds.

I would only consider the small battery if it’s in good shape and if it’s a good deal. You can find an average deal on more car. Anywhere any when. You can do it probably, but there will be additional complication. That complication has to be worth it.

 

[gozer]

I agree. You all have been a great a reference.