Should I buy a brand new Leaf

[PUTT3]

Hi there,
My name is Fraser and I live in New Zealand. I am ready to ditch my Diesel Ssangyong 4WD and slip into something a bit more environmentally friendly. Nissan NZ is currently!holding a run out promo on the Leaf, with a 59kw selling for $37k NZ ( about £17000 UK). I'm hopeful of getting a test drive this week, but having seen the spec. and viewing one in the showroom it looks very attractive. Have done my research and can't see too many downsides - I don't take too much from the negative reviews - it will be a 100% improvement on the old wagon I am currently driving. Any advice would be gratefully received to help with my decision. Cheers for now, F

 

[Stanton]

Is this a trick question? Sounds like a good price for a good car.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

Excellent price if the car meets your needs. We have had our 2 62kWh (same battery, just different marketing) Leafs for over 5 years, and both still run great. Tires, wipers, and cabin filters are so far only maintenance.

 

[MikeinPA]

The Geely RD6 is coming to Oz shortly: https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/2024-riddara-rd6-electric-ute-primed-for-oz-146672/ Sadly, Nissan has not yet figured out they could be selling millions of small EV pickups just like this every year. About 40k AUS$

Wouldn't you rather have one of these?

 

[PUTT3]

Is this a trick question? Sounds like a good price for a good car.

Nope. 39kw are on sale too for $30k NZ (£14k).

 

[cwerdna]

Nope. 39kw are on sale too for $30k NZ (£14k).

Are you talking about battery capacity?

Battery capacity is measured in kWh, not "kw". kW and kWh are totally different metrics.

40 kWh pack size Leaf has a motor power rating of 110 kW. 60 kWh Leaf via inverter change (IIRC) has the same motor but rated at 160 kW, yielding better acceleration. You can see these kWh (pack capacity) vs. motor (kW) ratings at the specs tab of https://usa.nissannews.com/en-US/re...abId=release-3eb4547ef86970dcfb455688f504c170.

 

[PUTT3]

Yeah, sorry, missed the "h".

 

[MikeinPA]

Seriously, the battery technology in the Leaf dates from almost 20 years ago. Well engineered, but the cells are a very serious weakness that many people find out about, often out of warranty.

Cars last decades in New Zealand--you don't want to be stuck with Nissan's failure to upgrade the battery design in these. Wait for the new batteries to come out, and buy then.

 

[Toby]

We have a 2023 Leaf Plus which we love. It is comfortable and most of the controls are easy to work. There is one issue here in North America. The Leaf uses the Chademo connector for fast DC (level 3) charging. In spite of its technical quality, Chademo is being phased out. It is getting harder and harder to find Chademo connections when traveling. At home, of course we use level 2 charging. On our last trip we were nearly stranded as the Chademo stations we depended on were all malfunctioning. I do not know the situation in New Zealand but check it out.

 

[NoahJ]

I would say it sounds like a good price. My main recommendation would be if you get one use the slower charging systems as much as possible to give your battery the longest life possible. The car will last a good long time if you do.

 

[cdherman]

Leaf with Chademo means don't try to drive long distances. But as a second car for local use, they are great. Or frankly, if one car is mostly acceptable for your situation, far too many people fail to calculate that you can rent a vehicle for long range trips and save a LOT of money over time. Property tax on a rental vehicle = $0 Registration fee on a rental = $0 Depreciation on a rental vehicle = $0 Monthly payment on a loan = $0 You put those savings together and you can rent an ICE for a pretty penny every few weeks and still come out ahead. Depends partly on where you are at of course. If the local Enterprise is walking distance, its a no brainer........

Get my drift?

 

[ToddA1966]

Seriously, the battery technology in the Leaf dates from almost 20 years ago. Well engineered, but the cells are a very serious weakness that many people find out about, often out of warranty.

Cars last decades in New Zealand--you don't want to be stuck with Nissan's failure to upgrade the battery design in these. Wait for the new batteries to come out, and buy then.

Sure, the Leaf batteries aren't liquid cooled, but the tech isn't "20 years old"; the Leaf is on its third generation of batteries and uses similar pouch cells as those used in other EV batteries.

 

[MikeinPA]

Sure, the Leaf batteries aren't liquid cooled, but the tech isn't "20 years old"; the Leaf is on its third generation of batteries and uses similar pouch cells as those used in other EV batteries.

Prototype Nissan EV running the laminated pouch cells in 2008 https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/nissan/nissan-ev-02-prototype-2008-electric-review/ And a picture of the gen 1 module from early 3/30/2008 (seventh image from the top) https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/pictures/photos-nissan-denki-cube-concept/

I figure most of the Leaf design was frozen about 2008 so they could get the production vehicles rolling in 2010. That is what I tell people anyway when they inevitable ask: "what's the range?" So the cells would have been a mature product at this point as well. Here is the press release for the cells from 5/19/2008, stating they had already tested the cells: "The high-performance lithium-ion batteries employ a compact laminated configuration which delivers twice the electric power compared to conventional nickel-metal hydride batteries with a cylindrical configuration. Based on on-going vehicle field tests, AESC’s batteries have been validated to be safe, demonstrating high-performance qualities, on average runs of more than 100,000 km.+"

So yes, Leaf pouch cell tech is 20 years old. They have added some transition metals to the battery to improve energy density, and evolved the electrolyte.

This 10/23/2009 image shows the early sardine can modules with pouch cells in a pre-production Leaf. One of the cans has been cutaway to show the cells. The same cells are in the 40 kwh modules--one of which is sitting on my workbench right now.

It really must be said that if Nissan stuck a water cooled LFP pack in the Leaf, and a CCS port, they would have a really nice EV with great range and durability. Looking at the picture above, from 2009, it is unfathomable why Nissan squandered their tech lead and does not dominate this class of EVs today. Just a complete mystery. And why there is not a whole family of vehicles built around this platform. I bought one of the earliest US made Leafs and then doubled down with a used 2013 leaf. This is a very well engineered machine and a joy to drive. The pouch cells are weakness. Corrosion is a weakness. Some of the PDMs get problems. A few of the brake master cylinders. But that is it for major problems. I am sure someone will correct me on this.

 

[cornbinder89]

My take is the original battery design was chosen for its serviceability and it remains one of the true serviceable packs on the market. The downside is there are no or few modules to service the batteries out there.
To make it serviceable it more or less had to give up on small form factor and liquid cooling.
In much the same way that CHademo has the ability for bi directional power flow, but V2H or load was never seriously pursued, the advantages of both choices were never realized and the drawback that they necessitated became drag on the cars when compared to vehicles that chose not to incorporate these features.
We can argue whether the features are worth the costs, but if the feature is never utilized then there is just costs involved in the choice.

 

[clark vera]

Hi there,
My name is Fraser and I live in New Zealand. I am ready to ditch my Diesel Ssangyong 4WD and slip into something a bit more environmentally friendly. Nissan NZ is currently!holding a run out promo on the Leaf, with a 59kw selling for $37k NZ ( about £17000 UK). I'm hopeful of getting a test drive this week, but having seen the spec. and viewing one in the showroom it looks very attractive. Have done my research and can't see too many downsides - I don't take too much from the negative reviews - it will be a 100% improvement on the old wagon I am currently driving. Any advice would be gratefully received to help with my decision. Cheers for now, F

I just bought one for dirt cheap, $19 a month lease. I am very pleased.

 

[MikeinPA]

My take is the original battery design was chosen for its serviceability and it remains one of the true serviceable packs on the market. The downside is there are no or few modules to service the batteries out there.
To make it serviceable it more or less had to give up on small form factor and liquid cooling.
In much the same way that CHademo has the ability for bi directional power flow, but V2H or load was never seriously pursued, the advantages of both choices were never realized and the drawback that they necessitated became drag on the cars when compared to vehicles that chose not to incorporate these features.
We can argue whether the features are worth the costs, but if the feature is never utilized then there is just costs involved in the choice.

Yes, why didn't Nissan leverage the bidirectional Chademo as well? Many buyers would have happily paid for a device to let them access the pack during power outs, and probably would have accepted some additional warranty terms. They had this working in 2010!

I like the serviceability of the packs--well engineered. What is not well engineered is the sealing design on their pouch cells. Seal failure is likely the number one reason cells are dying, and HV shorts are occurring due to electrolyte leakage in the 40 and 60 kwh packs as well. Most of the comments on the 40 kwh pack replacement threads are about single cell failures--likely due to air and moisture getting into the pouch. Globally--how many out of commission Leafs due to this single failure mode? All very puzzling.

 

[cornbinder89]

I think the "costs" of Chademo and/or the serviceable battery would be negated if there were inexpensive modules available, and shops to install them. If modules were available I think shops would spring up to do the work.
With the '11,'12, 13's aging out, and many that could likely go another "lifetime", I could even see a business getting these old chassies and retrofitting new 40Kwh packs into the cars.
Freightliner did something similar with all the old cabover trucks they had on lease, they took them and built them back into short nose conventional trucks that were dirt cheap, overhauling the major components.
As it stand, too many trade up and the older ones end up in salvage yards, judging by what I see online. This is a waste and not "green" if there are more miles possible with a battery upgrade.

 

[GHitch]

Leaf with Chademo means don't try to drive long distances. But as a second car for local use, they are great. Or frankly, if one car is mostly acceptable for your situation, far too many people fail to calculate that you can rent a vehicle for long range trips and save a LOT of money over time. Property tax on a rental vehicle = $0 Registration fee on a rental = $0 Depreciation on a rental vehicle = $0 Monthly payment on a loan = $0 You put those savings together and you can rent an ICE for a pretty penny every few weeks and still come out ahead. Depends partly on where you are at of course. If the local Enterprise is walking distance, its a no brainer........

Get my drift?

You missed that OP in in NZ.... FYI and for OP's info, CHAdeMO is not an issue for the forseeable future, it is very prevalent infrastructure and still being installed with new chargers, and the leasing stuff doesn't work the same in NZ.

 

[collinlovas]

We have a 2023 Leaf Plus which we love. It is comfortable and most of the controls are easy to work. There is one issue here in North America. The Leaf uses the Chademo connector for fast DC (level 3) charging. In spite of its technical quality, Chademo is being phased out. It is getting harder and harder to find Chademo connections when traveling. At home, of course we use level 2 charging. On our last trip we were nearly stranded as the Chademo stations we depended on were all malfunctioning. I do not know the situation in New Zealand but check it out.

I have a 2023 LEAF SV Plus and I love the car. I’ve been following the Nomadic Hippie, who has been testing a new adapter that will enable a LEAF to charge at a CCS charging station. I’ve been thinking about purchasing one and keeping it in the trunk, but I use the Subaru Outback for long trips so I’ve never experienced range anxiety. I want to say the price for an adapter is about $1k, but I’ve seen other prices, discussions about bulk or group purchases, etc. Also, there’s a software component to the adapter and may need to have its firmware updated from time to time. If it sits in the trunk, I fear I’d be at a charging station trying to figure out what I do with the USB dongle in an area without cellular service as the CCS charging station refuses to connect.

 

[Chad E. Mo]

You could think of the chademo/ccs adapter like a spare tire...

Spare tire: check the pressure periodically​

Adapter: check the web for firmware updates​

​

(Irony here is that the stock Leaf does not include a spare tire. )