Some advice on potential used purchase please

[Marcusmax]

I'm looking at a car tomorrow. It's a private sale in Dublin and the owner is selling because he's moving country at the end of next week. So not a lot of time!

It's a late 2017 30 kWh model with 63,000 km on it. This will suit my driving needs if it's up to snuff. 3 owners. He has a service history but I'm not sure how far back that goes. The battery health shows 11 out of 12 bars, which as I understand it is around 82%. He's asking very reasonable money for it as he has to sell it within the week, either privately or to a dealer at a much reduced price.

The thing is, even though I have downloaded LeafSpy I don't have an OBD reader and won't have time to get one before I see the car. So I will have to rely on the bar reading.

How does this sound? If I'm happy enough with the overall condition and how it drives is it safe enough to go ahead? (No guarantees I know). Or should I insist on getting a reader and checking the battery that way? I think these models don't come up so often here and are quite desirable when they do so he might get another buyer if I delay.

Any advice greatly appreciated, also anything else I should check or look out for? Thanks!

 

[LeftieBiker]

I'm looking at a car tomorrow. It's a private sale in Dublin and the owner is selling because he's moving country at the end of next week. So not a lot of time!

It's a late 2017 30 kWh model with 63,000 km on it. This will suit my driving needs if it's up to snuff. 3 owners. He has a service history but I'm not sure how far back that goes. The battery health shows 11 out of 12 bars, which as I understand it is around 82%. He's asking very reasonable money for it as he has to sell it within the week, either privately or to a dealer at a much reduced price.

The thing is, even though I have downloaded LeafSpy I don't have an OBD reader and won't have time to get one before I see the car. So I will have to rely on the bar reading.

How does this sound? If I'm happy enough with the overall condition and how it drives is it safe enough to go ahead? (No guarantees I know). Or should I insist on getting a reader and checking the battery that way? I think these models don't come up so often here and are quite desirable when they do so he might get another buyer if I delay.

Any advice greatly appreciated, also anything else I should check or look out for? Thanks!

You want my used Leaf buying guide, which I will link shortly. Basically, the 30kwh Leaf is an exceptional case, as many of the batteries were essentially defective, but not all of them. I don't honestly know much about the ratio of bad to good batteries in the UK. I can tell you that if the car has 11 bars AND the BMS was not reset back to 12, then it's a good battery. The Devil is in that "AND"...
https://mynissanleaf.com/threads/things-you-really-need-to-know-when-shopping-for-a-used-leaf.26662/

 

[Marcusmax]

Thank you very much for your reply and yes that guide sounds very useful. I wasn't aware there was a problem with the 30kwh battery despite doing quite a lot of research over the last week or so. I'm in Ireland, not the UK, so I'm not sure where the cars for this market are or were assembled but it's not necessarily the same. Maybe someone else would know more about the particulars of that.

How could I find out whether or not the BMS was reset? Short of asking the owner and he may not know as he hasn't owned it from the start.

One detail I should add is that I need to travel to see my daughter who lives about 100km away so a 200k round trip. I do that about once a month or every two. There are charge points near her so I would hope to be able to do the trip with the battery fully charged with one charge stop near her after visiting and then home again. I could also plug the granny charger in for a few hours while there. Does that sound feasible in this car, given the 82% battery capacity?

That link doesn't work for me for some reason, I'm just getting a Safari error. I'll try it on Chrome.

 

[cornbinder89]

If your daily needs are low enough (40KM, etc) try and take it on a test drive near to that limit. If it looks like it will make it with enough left over for when the weather turns cold, heat is needed and battery capacity drops in the cold, then I would take a chance.
If you plan on lots of high speed driving, do a test drive at speed.

 

[Marcusmax]

Thanks for that. See the post above (whenever it is approved) for more details on my driving needs.

In terms of the 30kwh being problematic I found this thread. Not sure which country it is from though.

 

[Marcusmax]

God this ‘waiting for approval’ business is a bit onerous. Means I can’t have a proper discussion here.

So I went ahead and bought the car today anyway. It checked out and drove fine and has a full Nissan service history and excellent battery report from the last one, which was in August. I gave him a deposit and he is happy for me to get an OBD reader and check everything with LeafSpy before taking it. Picking it up on Tuesday. Hoping it all works out in the long term.

 

[LeftieBiker]

God this ‘waiting for approval’ business is a bit onerous. Means I can’t have a proper discussion here.

So I went ahead and bought the car today anyway. It checked out and drove fine and has a full Nissan service history and excellent battery report from the last one, which was in August. I gave him a deposit and he is happy for me to get an OBD reader and check everything with LeafSpy before taking it. Picking it up on Tuesday. Hoping it all works out in the long term.

I'm sorry about that. There are usually a couple of Mods approving posts, but it looks like it's just me this weekend, and I've been under the weather. I'll make a bigger effort to move them through. Did you ever get the link to my buying guide to work?

 

[Marcusmax]

That's no problem, thanks for letting me know. Hope you feel better soon.

Yes I found that link in another post by searching, the one here still wouldn't work for me though. Highly informative thanks and really helped me to make a more informed decision. The car has been serviced regularly by Nissan here so I will be following up with them re. software updates etc.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I'll check the link later. The only real way to compare the Leaf's displayed capacity bars with its actual capacity is to do a range test. Reset the trip odometer. Then drive the car on a full charge if possible, and with the dash display configured to read the charge as a percentage. If possible, drive until the car goes from 100% to either 90% or 75%, so you are using either 10% or 25% of the charge. Then simple multiplication will give you the approximate range of the car. Then - and this is important - repeat the test with the state of charge at, say, 20%. This will reveal any bad or marginal cells in the battery, because the range will plummet at lower states of charge even driving the same route at the same speed, as any weak cell(s) 'drop out' and cause the Battery Management System (BMS). to shut it down early to avoid pack damage. There are some really good 30kwh batteries out there. It's just that there are so many defective ones as well.

 

[Marcusmax]

Ok thanks, that sounds pretty thorough but something I'd have to do over a couple of sessions to get the battery in both those charge states. For what it's worth the owner said the BMS wasn't reset during his ownership as far as he was aware and that the bar only dropped off recently. Unless Nissan would have reset it during the service in August, which I doubt as it sounds like the bar dropped long after the service was done. Of course that's all taken on trust but I'm prepared to believe the guy is genuine.

 

[Marcusmax]

Happy Christmas all! I just have another couple of questions.

I can tell you that if the car has 11 bars AND the BMS was not reset back to 12, then it's a good battery.

If the car had the software update, does that mean that the BMS was reset? I'm going to enquire with the dealer who serviced it if it ever had the update.

My car has no mud flaps which means it's getting sprayed with mud whenever it rains. Did the Mk. 1 have them? Any photos I've looked at online don't seem to show them but there's some sort of bracket in front of the rear wheel arches which looks like something should be there. Thanks!

Here's what I have:



The bracket on the back:



And the front:



Are these normal or am I missing flaps?

 

[cornbinder89]

no flaps

 

[Marcusmax]

Ok so what I have is normal? Good to hear except the side of the car does get sprayed with mud when driving in the wet, more so than I've noticed with past cars.

 

[Drew21]

Your pictures show the aerodynamic doodads. I don't know what you would call them exactly, but they're meant to divert a bit of air around the tires in the name of efficiency.

Our 2014 (acquired well-used in 2020) has what I always assumed were OEM/factory mud flaps/guards behind the front and rear tires. They're the same color as the paint and everything. However, when I just did a Google image search for "2014 Nissan Leaf" none of the first several pages of images show the flaps, so maybe they were added on later.

OK, I did another search for "2014 Nissan Leaf SV" which is what we have and did find some pictures with flaps. This isn't the same color as our Leaf, but these are the same flaps.



Regardless of whether they're OEM or were added by the original owner, they don't do much and the sides of the car still get covered with mud, muck, road salt, and tar. I've had factory flaps, or added my own of approximately these dimensions, on several previous cars and none of them helped much. Better than nothing, but not much better than nothing.

 

[Marcusmax]

Thanks for that. I saw another Leaf parked locally today and it had the same arrangement as mine, good to know they are actually part of the aerodynamic design. Strange that some models seem to have mud guards while others don’t though. I tried to get some through Nissan but none of the dealers I called could source them. Sounds like it isn’t worth worrying about if they don’t really help much. Thanks again, and for posting that picture as it helps to know what to aim for if I do pursue them.

 

[LeftieBiker]

IIRC, when the BMS is updated, it is also reset as part of the procedure. The missing bars that then reappear will go away again within roughly six months.

 

[Marcusmax]

Ok I’ll have to check with Nissan if that was done before. That’s if they’ll tell me. They were very cagey about giving any info about the car when I phoned them before I bought it. Maybe they’ll be less so now I’m the new owner.

 

[Marcusmax]

Just coming back to this as I received my OBD reader the other day and did a LS reading today. The reader worked fine first time.

Here are the results from the Lite version - I don't really need more than battery health info.





This was done cold without charging or driving it first. The SOH is what I expected given it lost 1 bar over the last few months according to the previous owner. I'm not sure what the AHr or Hx readings tell me (I do know that AHr is Amp Hours!) but is 152 quick charges a lot for a 7.5 year old car? The main graph looks ok to me with 9 mV difference, am I right there? What do those two blue lines mean though? Anything else of note?

Thanks!

 

[EVPowers]

There is a 70+ page help file that is within the app. Look through some of the menus to find it.
Hx is important. And it is a bit concerning in this battery.
The high number of DC Fast charges would be off-putting as well.

Would be best to do some more testing of this car when the state of charge was much lower. And to watch/record the live data while driving. (Not sure you can do screen recording via the free version of the app) I would be watching closely for any section(s) that drop out under heavy loads when the pack is less full.

If it were me, I'd pass on this one.
There is plenty of of other Leafs out there.

Look at post #9 in this thread. The author outlined what you can do to more thoroughly test a Leaf. Follow the procedure and report back here.

If you buy this car based only on the limited details you have right now, you may come to regret it later.

 

[Marcusmax]

Hx is important. And it is a bit concerning in this battery.
The high number of DC Fast charges would be off-putting as well.

If it were me, I'd pass on this one.
There is plenty of of other Leafs out there.

If you buy this car based only on the limited details you have right now, you may come to regret it later.

Well I’ve already bought the car - thought that was clear from my previous posts. So I’m ‘stuck’ with it. And no I don’t regret it, yet anyway, even if the battery is somewhat compromised. It’s otherwise in excellent condition. Also I got a very good deal on it so I’m not too out of pocket.

From my research it is an bit unclear what the Hx figure actually means. Even the developers of LeafSpy state in that help file, which I did look through briefly, that they are not entirely sure what it means. Quote: “The meaning of this number is not fully understood but… it is thought this percentage decreases.” Maybe there is more certainty somewhere out there but it seems somewhat ambiguous.

152 quick charges makes an average of 20 a year, 1.7 a month. Is that really so high? I have also read that fast charging is not such a problem in itself, it is more the heat that’s generated that can be problematic, especially if one lives in a hot climate zone which I certainly do not (Ireland)!

I know it seems that I am defending the car and if so, what was the point of me posting those result. It’s just that your assessment seems overly negative, based again on my own limited research and knowledge. Also, is the difference score of 9mV not one positive anyway?!

I could certainly get the Pro version of LS and do some more in-depth testing but is there any real point at this stage and also, some people say it’s better not to know too much and to just enjoy the car.

I couldn’t test it more thoroughly before buying as the seller was literally moving country in a few days and I couldn’t acquire an OBD reader in that time frame, so I had to make a quick decision. Yes I could have done the range test described in post #9 but again, there wasn’t the time.

Also, there are still about 6-7 months of warranty left on the battery so I could bring it to Nissan if it really is in bad shape, though as I understand it it has to lose 9 bars before they will replace it. I phoned them to enquire and the impression I got was I could bring it in if there was any question about it and they’d at least assess it.

The car has been serviced every year by Nissan. Here is the battery info sheet from the last service, done in August ‘24. Previous years are similar. Obviously it has lost one bar since that service was done: