This article concludes worrying about 80% isn't necessary.

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After (say) five years, what's the actual impact of being extremely careful with the battery vs. just using the car and charging as needed?

And compared with other factors (local climate, driving style, etc.)?
 
Alex: Battery capacity is measured in kWh, not "KW". Thanks for confirming w/more data points!
After (say) five years, what's the actual impact of being extremely careful with the battery vs. just using the car and charging as needed?

And compared with other factors (local climate, driving style, etc.)?
This person in the super mild climate of city of SF (so you can't blame lack of pack thermal management) lost 6 capacity bars on their 1/2013 built by July 2020: https://mynissanleaf.com/threads/2013-battery-bars-half-way.31297/. Per https://mynissanleaf.com/threads/2013-battery-bars-half-way.31297/, they charged to 100% all the time. I wouldn't be surprised if they topped off after short trips and had sustained high or 100% SoC most of the time.

They had a crap chemistry (built before 4/2013) but I'd guess that if they took better care of their pack, they'd have been a 2 to 4 bar loser by that point in time, instead of 6.

https://medium.com/@eTaxidriver/aná...l-nissan-leaf-40-kwh-tras-5-años-d2080401ce1e unfortunately is in Spanish but you can get Google Translate or your browser to translate. You can see that those that charged to 100% tended to do worse on LeafSpy SOH than those who didn't.
 
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"Higher than estimated annual mileage accumulation (such as more than 12,500 miles per year)"
First time I've seen this. It obviously shortens the time to get to 160 000 km warranty limit, but how does it impact capacity? How does milage matter if I only ever charge up to 80% on L2 and keep the battery cool?
It's not really the mileage, it is the number of charge cycles. Of course, miles driven and number of charge cycles are closely related. Number of L1/L2 charge cycles are, however, substantially less significant than the number of L3 charge cycles. There are a number of variables at work here, I've never seen anyplace where anyone has sorted out just how you relate charge cycles, temperature exposure, and periods at high or low state of charge in order to accurately predict battery life. And these relationships would be different for different battery chemistries so the water muddies even more.
 
How a Leaf is charged is a factor in battery health, no doubt, but I've yet to see any exhaustive analyses that provide evidence for just how big it is.
Chemistry has changed over the years, so multiple exhaustive analyses would be needed. There was a research paper (TU Delft?) that cycled a bunch of 2013-ish Leaf cells in custom cell presses. They found that cool temperatures and cycling from ~25% to ~60% provided the most full cycles. I looked for the paper but could not find it yet. So, that is what we do if possible. Charge to 80% just before leaving, park it at lower SOCs, keep them cool. The cars live outside, but they are in a shaded spot, and surfaces they are parked on generally cool. The white Leaf has lost 13% SOH so far. (Although when new it showed 91% SOH. Some of the 2013's with early USA made cells came this way--started at about 90% when new, but had full range, with extra miles below the very low battery warning. I think they may have still had the battery map that was used for the Japanese cells.)
 
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After (say) five years, what's the actual impact of being extremely careful with the battery vs. just using the car and charging as needed?
Time is irrelevant: it's still the same chemistry/design.
My original comment holds true: high-temp/high-SOC should always be avoided (if possible) for long battery life!
 
Keeping in mind that DCFC (I thought the L3 term is deprecated) is only charging at a 1C rate or less most of the time (especially 62kWh Leafs). 1C has always been considered a rate which does not harm a Lithium based battery. But even 1C or less will raise the temperature and therein lies where degradation could be accelerated. My SOH is what I would say average with several 70kW DCFC charges with my battery never getting over 7 bars except one time it hit 8, Some of those 7 bars could have been close.
 
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After (say) five years, what's the actual impact of being extremely careful with the battery vs. just using the car and charging as needed?

And compared with other factors (local climate, driving style, etc.)?
The 2018 SV experienced (depending on who you believe) partial or complete HV Battery failure beginning in October of last year. The symptoms were a rapid SOC loss while driving. 100 percent SOC would drop to 5 percent SOC in a matter of 5 to 10 miles driven depending on terrain and speed. The SOC would recover on deceleration but would again rapidly decrease as soon as acceleration started again. The range of the vehicle was limited to about 30 miles of usable range. Only one bar of Battery Capacity was shown to be lost on the dash display. These issues started at a mileage of around 88,000 miles. Months of stress and anger dealing with NIssan Consumer Affairs and a local Nissan dealership finally paid off and the HV Battery was replaced with a remanufactured HV Battery. I have attached some images of the TechLine notes and the Dealership Leaf Tech findings.

On the 2020 SL PLUS, I had the dreaded "Service EV System Unable to restart after power off" message along with codes P0AA6 and P31E7. Multiple posts on this exist already in the forum but I will reference the TSB on this known issue from Nissan: Classification EL-22015 Reference NTB23-024. I learned quickly to carry my Innova scantool to avoid having to call AAA to tow my car to a dealership every time this occured. This car was never correctly diagnosed by Nissan and was bought back by Nissan North America. By the way, it was NOT the 12V Battery causing this. Last I heard, this car had been listed for resale with a branded lemon buyback title; without having the root cause of this problem corrected, and now also has the latest recall (R24B2 NHTSA 24V-700) on the HV Battery on its VIN.

Both of these cars I used to keep plugged in overnight as they were driven daily for commuting 70 miles per day minimum. The SOC on the 2018 would generally be at 100 percent at the start of each day and would drop to 25 to 40 percent over the course of the day. Almost all charging was done at home on a L2 charger, with very minimal L3 charging. The 2018 SV is now owned by a friend of mine and currently has 102,000 miles on the odometer. It is now kept between 30 percent minimum SOC and 80 percent maximum SOC. The 2020 SV PLUS was a nightmare of codes and failures but also was usually kept at 100 percent SOC at the start of each day. The 2020 would also be charged almost exclusively on a L2 charger with minimal use of a L3. As the issues with the 2020 progressed, the charger would not even allow a full 100 percent charge to be reached before the codes would set and stop the charger from continuing. The 2023 SV PLUS I am trying to keep at 80 percent maximum SOC and 30 percent minimum SOC. Only time will tell if it makes any difference in battery performance.

TLDR: My advice would be to try and follow the written recommendation of Nissan and keep the charge between 80 percent maximum and 30 percent minimum. Doing this might, at a minimum, help you in the case of a warranty concern on your HV Battery.
 

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"Higher than estimated annual mileage accumulation (such as more than 12,500 miles per year)"

It's not really the mileage, it is the number of charge cycles. Of course, miles driven and number of charge cycles are closely related. Number of L1/L2 charge cycles are, however, substantially less significant than the number of L3 charge cycles. There are a number of variables at work here, I've never seen anyplace where anyone has sorted out just how you relate charge cycles, temperature exposure, and periods at high or low state of charge in order to accurately predict battery life. And these relationships would be different for different battery chemistries so the water muddies even more.
Makes sens!

I found this interesting thread about that:

Post in thread 'Charge Discharge Cycles' https://mynissanleaf.com/threads/charge-discharge-cycles.11168/post-256757
 
How a Leaf is charged is a factor in battery health, no doubt, but I've yet to see any exhaustive analyses that provide evidence for just how big it is.
the current batch of Gen 2 packs have by and large, not been on the street to see "obvious" differences. Since we only have anecdotal comments on driving styles/charging habits, etc. It is impossible to make any determinations at this early venture. The only real conclusion is the pack is better than the Gen one which is a bit of an obvious statement because longer range helps with SOC control by default but there are many that simply "plug it in" so they are only using the top 50% (or 33%) of the pack capacity.

There are, however controlled studies out there if you look hard enough and of the ones I've seen I think the trend is clear despite the rather limited scope of the testing.
But getting a general feel for the results of the study is complicated by the rather extensive "backing" off every study emphasizing the robustness of the new cells with general statements projecting usability for many years under less than ideal charging practices.

Now if that isn't enough to muddy the view, we also have a completely reconfigured BMS whose role has obviously changed. Now we see quarterly adjustments to capacity which can see range decrease, stay the same or increase which means these changes are not strictly caused by degradation.
 
Thanks. My feeling is that there are so many confounding factors that it’s difficult to nail down the true impact of charging practices with any real confidence.
Seriously? It's already known that high temps are bad for li-ion batteries. Ditto for sustain high state of charge. We also know there are calendar losses (due to time) that will always exist and are accelerated but high temps and high SoC.

If you want to see some recommendations from other BEV makers, I started https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/b...e-g-80-for-daily-usage-recommendations.56439/ but you need to have an account there to see it. Here are some things you can see that I'm copying/pasting here.

https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/b...mmendations.56439/?post_id=985638#post-985638
https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/80-90-or100.50236/page-3#post-855958
https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/charge-to-100-80.49020/page-4#post-826940
https://www.i4talk.com/threads/what...=74630&nested_view=1&sortby=oldest#post-74630
https://www.mercedesbenzhk.com/eq/en/charging-faqs.php - search for health
https://insideevs.com/news/702888/tesla-cybertruck-v3-supercharging-test/ - notice the 80%

See what Dr. Dahn said at https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/great-presentation-on-battery-care-by-dr-dahn.51329/#post-880770. From https://www.dal.ca/diff/dahn/people/jeff_dahn/cv.html:
"Selected Accomplishments

Helped pioneer the development of the lithium-ion battery.
A world leader in the development and understanding of carbonaceous materials for use in lithium-ion batteries.
Over 630 publications in refereed journals and 65 separate inventions with associated issued patents and patents pending. According Web of Science: H-index = 92 as of Feb. 21, 2016.
Co-inventor of Li[NixMnxCo1-2x]O2 0 < x < 0.5 (called NMC) class of positive electrode materials now used world wide in Li-ion cells. Many Li-ion cells made today use NMC positive electrode materials.
Maintain one of the largest and most advanced university laboratories in the world devoted to studies of all aspect of lithium-ion batteries.
Developed “High Precision Coulometry” and other advanced diagnostics which allow decades long lifetimes of Li-ion cells to be ranked in experiments that last only a few weeks."

Leaf has moved to NMC. See https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/INNOVATION/TECHNOLOGY/ARCHIVE/LI_ION_EV/.

Did you see the study I pointed to at https://mynissanleaf.com/threads/am-i-doing-much-damage.36494/page-2#post-651420?

How about you find me a study showing that 100% and/or high state of charge is good for li-ion batteries in the long term? Every time I've asked the charge to 100%, "doesn't make any difference" naysayers for such studies, none have ever pointed me to one. Li-ion batteries aren't the same as lead-acid which do like being full.
 
I didn't see this clearly written in the documentation, but OVMS has a setting for this on supported MY Nissan LEAF:
Sufficient SOC and allowed drop while still plugged in after charging stops.
You can configure to notify or stop charging at a SOC limit, and keep inactive car project in long term at a charge range.

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