Updates on North American V2X/V2H/V2G Bi-Directional Charging

[SILVERado]

For anyone curious, I’ve been doing some investigating. Conclusions are grim.

Does anyone know about DIY installations I can share with an electrician? All of the existing threads I've seen on here don't discuss available hardware.

Fermata’s FE-15 for residential use was never produced and isn’t available anywhere. The FE-20 will be produced soon, but is only for 3-phase commercial use.

Wallbox’s Quasar 1 was never ultimately produced for the North American market, and the lack of grid codes or a North American Wallbox Power Meter means that the discharge feature cannot work here, even if you get your hands on one. Their Quasar 2 will be CCS/NACS-only.

Electway has a 4kw inverter for sale for $3K, but it isn’t automated and can’t charge the car.

Enphase’s and Delta’s products are vaporware and will never be produced, based on them pushing its release date back annually for the past five years.

InCharge will release a 3-phase product for fleet use starting at $20K “next year,” but nothing for residential.

DCbel’s Ara is currently sold in portions of four states (Bay Area of California, Downstate NY, parts of Florida and Texas), but only if you also buy their solar panels. The charger itself is $11K. There’s no evidence they’re actually installing it and no reviews.

Edit: adding Emporia's V2X device, which will only come with CCS and NACS.

 

[cornbinder89]

This is something I am always watching for. It seams a great untapped potential. (pardon the pun).

 

[SILVERado]

This is something I am always watching for. It seams a great untapped potential. (pardon the pun).

Have you seen anything else? I have an electrician willing to put in the work to set one up, but I can't even find hardware to purchase.

 

[henrydehoja]

I'm not aware of any DIY installs in the US. Most of the info I've read about were done in other countries.

I like to keep tabs on this tech too. More info on US market:

Emporia's V2X device will be supplied with NACS or CCS1 plugs:
https://www.emporiaenergy.com/V2X Charger Technical Specs.pdf

This site also has a good collection of V2X devices out there:
https://www.evsiphon.com/evses

 

[SILVERado]

I'm not aware of any DIY installs in the US. Most of the info I've read about were done in other countries.

I like to keep tabs on this tech too. More info on US market:

Emporia's V2X device will be supplied with NACS or CCS1 plugs:
https://www.emporiaenergy.com/V2X Charger Technical Specs.pdf

This site also has a good collection of V2X devices out there:
https://www.evsiphon.com/evses

This is a helpful set of links! Disappointing that there'll never be a residential V2X Chademo solution...

 

[Caliwish]

I'm not aware of any DIY installs in the US. Most of the info I've read about were done in other countries.

I like to keep tabs on this tech too. More info on US market:

Emporia's V2X device will be supplied with NACS or CCS1 plugs:
https://www.emporiaenergy.com/V2X Charger Technical Specs.pdf

This site also has a good collection of V2X devices out there:
https://www.evsiphon.com/evses

Would it work with a chademo to ccs1 adapter?

 

[henrydehoja]

Would it work with a chademo to ccs1 adapter?

I haven't heard anything about using adapters with V2X, but my guess would be that it depends on the adapter. The adapter would have to be designed for 2-way power flow.

 

[russellv]

I'm not aware of any DIY installs in the US. Most of the info I've read about were done in other countries.

I like to keep tabs on this tech too. More info on US market:

Emporia's V2X device will be supplied with NACS or CCS1 plugs:
https://www.emporiaenergy.com/V2X Charger Technical Specs.pdf

This site also has a good collection of V2X devices out there:
https://www.evsiphon.com/evses

Thanks for the shout out. I’lol get around to updating my evsiphon site more soon. There are 3-4 residential units coming out next year. Many options coming to market shortly.

 

[watchdoc]

I've been waiting for over a year now to pull the trigger on a solar system with V2X. The Enphase system is really the only one that financially would make any sense but they keep pushing the date. I may jump ship and do a Powerwall 3 system and hope I like the next generation Model Y although it doesn't appear Powershare will support a "self consumption" mode like the Enphase system.

 

[Stanton]

Thanks for the update/collection of V2G/V2H options.
As battery packs continue to increase in capacity, I believe that EVs become long-term solution to home (and even remote living) power back-up. I use an EcoFlow battery back-up through a home transfer switch (@30 Amps) for short-term battery back-up now, but I fully expect to transition to using an EV as they add capabilities (like >15 Amp sourcing) and interfaces (like TT-30R).

 

[SILVERado]

I've been waiting for over a year now to pull the trigger on a solar system with V2X. The Enphase system is really the only one that financially would make any sense but they keep pushing the date. I may jump ship and do a Powerwall 3 system and hope I like the next generation Model Y although it doesn't appear Powershare will support a "self consumption" mode like the Enphase system.

The enphase system is going to be NACS/CCS, not Chademo.

If you want solar and are located in NY, CA, TX, or FL, DcBel’s system is a good option.

 

[watchdoc]

The enphase system is going to be NACS/CCS, not Chademo.

If you want solar and are located in NY, CA, TX, or FL, DcBel’s system is a good option.

Enphase demos a Leaf in their video.

Oddly enough, I got an invite today to reserve a dcbel Ara and I live in eastern, NC. The price is $10,299 but the invite is very light on details. Looks like you reserve a unit and wait for a quote with no timeline given.

The Powerwall 3 still seems like a much better option financially.

 

[frontrangeleaf]

We have a single Powerwall(2) and solar, which allows us to run about 70% independent from the grid averaged over the year. We might consider a bi-directional charger as a supplement for longer outages, but the reality is, that's likely a hard thing to justify. We had 8 outages this year so far, with 2 lasting more than an hour. In March, however, just north and west of us, folks lost power for up to 3 days. It's a rare event like that happening in Dec-Jan that would be the concern.

Given that a decent dual fuel genset capable of carrying our house more or less like the Powerwall runs about $3k hardware only (5kWh generator, 30 amp transfer switch, 40# propane tank and cabling), our budget to supplement our existing system would be limited. We could get a similarly capable portable power station from Ecoflow for around $4.5k before incentives. In theory, we could use the car to trickle charge the Ecoflow unit while it carried the house, and avoid fuel and maintenance costs, bridging bad solar days until the Powerwall came back online. There is some complexity to consider with the latter solution.

I think the business proposition for bi-directional chargers will be difficult to make work in the residential space. More likely in the commercial space where savings from demand charges play a role.

For comparison, we paid $8k after incentives to have our Powerwall added to existing solar. As it can do a lot more than any genset and bi-directional charging is in its infancy, I feel we did just fine in today's market. The new Ecoflow Delta Pro 3 looks to be an interesting alternative for those who already own an electric vehicle, preferably one with V2L.

Edit: I should add that my 70% figure above is for using 50% of the battery capacity, i.e., we have our backup reserve set to 50%, so the battery only cycles from 100% to 50% and back unless there's an outage. If we were willing to deep cycle the Powerwall, we could run independent of the grid far more often.