Using a timer to charge??

[Klausstein]

I have 2013 Leaf S that doesn't have a way to set what time to charge it. It is 1/4 the price for me to charge after 10:00PM, and I want to take advantage of that. I do have a charging station I use to charge my 2020 SV+, but I prefer to use 110 on the 2013. The batter only has 4 bars and I am trying to make it last as long as possible.
So, I was thinking about using an outdoor outlet timer like the one pictured to charge my 2013 at night. The idea is: at 10:00 the switch turns on and the already plugged in Leaf starts charging. Would doing this mess up the Leaf charging system? Has anybody done this?

Thanks in advance

 

[pstarSR]

in essense, No there is no reason this would not work. but you have to make sure the timer is rated for the amps it will allow through it later.

so a standard home charger than came with the leaf, 15amps. that should be your target. a timer that is rated for minimum 15 amps. you should be fine. the leaf wont know anything other than power was available at 10pm. almost like you just plugged it in at that time.

 

[cornbinder89]

I thought all Leaf's had a charge timer?
That said, I can't see a problem with what you are doing.

 

[Klausstein]

I thought all Leaf's had a charge timer?
That said, I can't see a problem with what you are doing.

There is a timer for the 2013 S, but you can’t set a specific time to start and end charging it. I go to bed early so going out at 10:00 PM isn’t realistic.

 

[pstarSR]

I thought all Leaf's had a charge timer?
That said, I can't see a problem with what you are doing.

yeah the models with out navigation, had a very generic control system for timing it on the dash. its not great. but it is there

@Klausstein
https://owners.nissanusa.com/content/techpub/ManualsAndGuides/NissanLEAF/2013/2013-NissanLEAF-owner-manual.pdf

check page 24 though, it talks about setting the "time" which would be the 10pm you want. but you dont get to set the "END" but you luckily can set a charge percentage. so like 80%. later leafs lost that feature for some reason

 

[Drew21]

The method you propose should be fine assuming the outdoor timer is capable of passing whatever amperage the EVSE requires (plus a safety margin).

As an aside, our 2014 SV definitely has timers where we can choose when we want the charge to start or when we want the charge to be finished. I can't imagine that the 2013 doesn't have this feature.

Maybe check this post:
https://mynissanleaf.com/threads/setting-the-charging-timer-on-a-2013-leaf-model-s.12988/

 

[knightmb]

There is a timer for the 2013 S, but you can’t set a specific time to start and end charging it. I go to bed early so going out at 10:00 PM isn’t realistic.

If my memory still serves (because I noticed this on my 2013), you can only set the "end" time. I believe with just the "end" time set, the Leaf tries to calculate when to "start" automatically based on it's current SOC. What this means is you can set the "end" time like right before your 1/4 discount ends (say at 5:00 am for example) and in theory, unless it takes more than X amount of hours to fully charge (or to 80%, whichever you have set), it should start "in between" that discount time for 10:00pm and whenever it ends.

We often use the "end" time hack as a way to only charge a Leaf to a certain percentage (say 80% for the newer models) by setting the end time further into the future than before we leave for work for example.

Since you only have 4 bars, I don't think you would have to worry about over-shooting the charge schedule.

 

[Klausstein]

If my memory still serves (because I noticed this on my 2013), you can only set the "end" time. I believe with just the "end" time set, the Leaf tries to calculate when to "start" automatically based on it's current SOC. What this means is you can set the "end" time like right before your 1/4 discount ends (say at 5:00 am for example) and in theory, unless it takes more than X amount of hours to fully charge (or to 80%, whichever you have set), it should start "in between" that discount time for 10:00pm and whenever it ends.

We often use the "end" time hack as a way to only charge a Leaf to a certain percentage (say 80% for the newer models) by setting the end time further into the future than before we leave for work for example.

Since you only have 4 bars, I don't think you would have to worry about over-shooting the charge schedule.

Thanks. I will play with this. I’m so use to my 2020 SV+ I think the old school 2013 S had me a bit confused. . I’ll mess with this tonight.

 

[ACDCPhilip]

The only problem I can see is if your outlet timer switches off while the car is charging at maximum. The cars charger is designed to end a charge gracefully by ramping down the charge rate. A sudden end of charge at the wrong split second could cause damage to the cars charger electronics which could be expensive. Being that your battery has lower capacity now, it's most likely your charging would have been ended ( gracefully ) by the car before the cheap rate charging session comes to an end & your timer cut the power.

 

[cornbinder89]

I don't see that as a problem, afterall it happens any time you disconnect the cord when it isn't at the very last end of the charge, so anyone who isn't charging to 100% (either by timer or manual) is shutting down the charger before it tapers.

 

[Klausstein]

Thanks all. I tried the built in "end timer" and it worked so I guess I won't be using the plug in charger.
On another note. I lost a bar today. Down to 3. Gonna drive this car until It can't get me to work and back.

 

[nlspace]

afterall it happens any time you disconnect the cord

Not really--when you press the release button to remove the J1772 handle it signals the OBC and it commands the charging current to zero.

The OBC has a PFC chip that is monitoring the AC input cycle-by-cycle, and this might be able to safe the system in the event of an interruption, but it only has a few milliseconds available.

Pulling the AC plug out of the outlet, or cutting power with a timer while charging is not recommended.

 

[WetEV]

I don't see that as a problem, afterall it happens any time you disconnect the cord when it isn't at the very last end of the charge, so anyone who isn't charging to 100% (either by timer or manual) is shutting down the charger before it tapers.

If you unplug the car first, pushing on the latch on the plug gracefully shuts down the charge. The current ramps down to zero, voltages stay reasonable. When you cut power to the charger first, the current stops right away, there may be arcing on the timer contacts, and hopefully the over voltage protection works. This is NOT graceful.

Even if the J1772 latch is broken, the pilot pin is shorter and breaks contact first, giving the charger time to ramp to zero. The wall end has no pilot signal,.

 

[pstarSR]

Not really--when you press the release button to remove the J1772 handle it signals the OBC and it commands the charging current to zero.

The OBC has a PFC chip that is monitoring the AC input cycle-by-cycle, and this might be able to safe the system in the event of an interruption, but it only has a few milliseconds available.

Pulling the AC plug out of the outlet, or cutting power with a timer while charging is not recommended.

As someone who works with high voltage. disconnecting something with amps running through it at the time, is highly NOT recommended. although can be done, its know to cause problems. disconnecting when amps are lower is always recommended.

 

[knightmb]

Thanks all. I tried the built in "end timer" and it worked so I guess I won't be using the plug in charger.
On another note. I lost a bar today. Down to 3. Gonna drive this car until It can't get me to work and back.

Good news because it has been so long since I tinkered with my 2013, I couldn't remember if that trick still worked.

 

[cornbinder89]

OK, I stand corrected, but we are talking about 1/2 wave of time. You pulling the trigger, and the contactors open. How much ramp down is an open question.
I don't think a timer on a 120 volt charge cord will cause a problem.

 

[BillAinCT]

One would hope that Nissan engineers researched all of the use cases including charging with L1/L2 and the house or building losing power. They would have to determine what could possibly be harmed were this to happen and mitigate that to ensure that it is always safe for this case. It's completely unacceptable to lose power only to find afterwards that the charger and/or PDM is bricked.

What does bother me is all of the occurrences of the precharge resistor and pilot diode failing. That doesn't give me a lot of confidence that the design was really studied and ringed out to account for every possibility of anything failing for either normal or abnormal situations. And if Gen 1 has these issues they should have been corrected in Gen 2 and a patch provided for Gen 1.

 

[BillAinCT]

I don't think a timer on a 120 volt charge cord will cause a problem.

I don't either and will add I sure hope it doesn't. A timer isn't the only way for this to occur.

 

[nlspace]

Nissan engineers didn't design the OBC, the Nissan company bought them from Nichicon in Japan. Then later they bought the PDM (with DC/DC and OBC inside) from Panasonic.

If an OBC fails and you have a schematic and can do some troubleshooting, then it might be possible to repair, if you can find the parts. Some parts are not available anymore, some never were. Otherwise it will be an expen$ive piece of kit to replace, or may end up with the car in the trash bin, if uneconomical to repair.

At full power charging there is a lot of energy stored in the big boost inductor and the switching transformers. Any accidental or intentional break in the circuit path on either the AC Input side or the HV DC Output section will unleash the beast. If you do not have an attorney, then one will be appointed for you--and if you do not have a complete return current path, then one will be created for you. It won't be pretty.

Take a look and see how far in the AC current travels before it turns around to head back home:


Hope is not a good strategy to avoid damage.

 

[cornbinder89]

At full power charging there is a lot of energy stored in the big boost inductor and the switching transformer

I would agree, at FULL POWER, but we're talking about 12 amps at 120 volt, which is already ramped down when compared to the chargers capacity,