Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

[SageBrush]

And speaking as one of those mentioned above who owns a similar car, I read the entire post and absorbed the info as intended without noticing the error. My Dad would have shuddered but for me the info is interesting and informative.

I had to reread the data and do some mental arithmetic to be sure what Doug was talking about since as written it does not make any sense. Doug is wasting people's time, but I doubt it is malicious. I find it interesting that Doug can successfully drive a hobbled EV long distances even though he does not understand basic energy. I suppose that is a good thing, since he represents a good swath of America.

I've long wondered if America at large can transition to EVs despite being confused by kWh and kW. Doug's example says yes, and the Bolt forum also says yes ... sort of. That place is over-run with people sure their car is broken because the GOM is so far off.

 

[goldbrick]

IMO, we can blame C. William Seimens for the confusion. Or maybe we just need to use Joules instead of Wh. Or 'horse power' instead of W.

It is confusing and I can see how people get them mixed up, either through ignorance or sloppiness. A lot of times it doesn't matter but often times it does.

But many (most?) people have absolutely no idea how their house is wired or how electricity works but they can still plug in a TV set. Hopefully someday, EV tech will evolve so it is just as simple.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

Just back from Johannesburg. Not sure I saw a single EV, let alone one of the very few Leafs here.

 

[frontrangeleaf]

Any sufficiently advanced technology will look like magic to those who don't understand it. (Arthur C. Clarke? I think?)

We have long past the point where the general public - and even well-educated folks outside of their respective areas of expertise - experience "magic" on a daily basis.

It's a challenge on many fronts, not least with respect to public policy.

I think this is quite a normal progression that we see more or less every time a new technology or new application of existing tech to a new area such as EVs sees general adoption across a broader spectrum of users.

I've spent the last 3 years telling pretty much everyone I meet about our Leaf. The responses have been very skewed toward disbelief, dismissal, and skepticism. Even telling them that I can drive this thing for about 4 cents a mile doesn't really penetrate.

I should just start telling them it's magic and leave it at that.

 

[BeyondBeLeaf]

There are much better options out there for the price when compared to the Leaf. Having said that, I'm glad that I bought my Leaf in December of 2021. The reason being is that I didn't have to contend with fluctuating gas prices. If the Bolt EUV was available last year, I most likely would've gone that route because there are more options available for less money, and the fact that I get GM Employee discount pricing.

I figure Nissan is going to have to either offer more features for the Leaf, or lower their price to compete with GM's Bolt. The Ariya with the Leaf's pricing would really be a compelling choice, but between $40k and $50K, it doesn't strike me as a good value.

 

[Flyct]

There are much better options out there for the price when compared to the Leaf. Having said that, I'm glad that I bought my Leaf in December of 2021. The reason being is that I didn't have to contend with fluctuating gas prices. If the Bolt EUV was available last year, I most likely would've gone that route because there are more options available for less money, and the fact that I get GM Employee discount pricing.

I figure Nissan is going to have to either offer more features for the Leaf, or lower their price to compete with GM's Bolt. The Ariya with the Leaf's pricing would really be a compelling choice, but between $40k and $50K, it doesn't strike me as a good value.

Ariya is at a big disadvantage since it doesn’t qualify the 2023 tax credit like Tesla and Ford. The Nissan rep told me that the Ariya was targeting a Tesla Model Y and it would be $10,000 less. Not so after Tesla dropped the price of the Y plus the Y qualifies for full tax credit.

I’ve owed 5 Nissan Leafs, and currently own a Tesla Model Y long range.

I test drove a Ariya, Tesla Model Y and Tesla Model 3. My final choice was a Model Y.

I actually feel more at home in the Leafs and Nissan Ariya but I’ve only owned the Tesla for 51 days and 1,800 miles. I drove my leafs almost 100,000 miles. I’m still getting used to the Tesla unnatural controls and idiosyncrasies.

An Ariya at $40,000 with 300+ miles of range would be something I would buy over any of the others if it had the same charging infrastructure that Tesla has.

 

[GaleHawkins]

There are much better options out there for the price when compared to the Leaf. Having said that, I'm glad that I bought my Leaf in December of 2021. The reason being is that I didn't have to contend with fluctuating gas prices. If the Bolt EUV was available last year, I most likely would've gone that route because there are more options available for less money, and the fact that I get GM Employee discount pricing.

I figure Nissan is going to have to either offer more features for the Leaf, or lower their price to compete with GM's Bolt. The Ariya with the Leaf's pricing would really be a compelling choice, but between $40k and $50K, it doesn't strike me as a good value.

Good points. I love our 2016 SL that received the 40 kilowatt hour battery pack in 2020. The Ariya announcement got my attention until they finally put a price on the thing. Being 72 it became clear Tesla Model Y duel motor long range would be best for me but price hikes had it around $67K .On 12 Jan 2023 my son said just ordered it . Then $20.5K price cut happened so ordered it 2am 14 January 2023 and picked it up In Nashville 6 days later. This is one happy old man. Build date is January 2023 Austin Texas. Getting it for the price of the ariya was unbelievable.. I now have over a thousand miles on the Model Y. It's my second new car. The 1973 Datun 1200 was my first new car. I have a 50 year history with Nissan.

 

[Flyct]

Good points. I love our 2016 SL that received the 40 kilowatt hour battery pack in 2020. The Ariya announcement got my attention until they finally put a price on the thing. Being 72 it became clear Tesla Model Y duel motor long range would be best for me but price hikes had it around $67K .On 12 Jan 2023 my son said just ordered it . Then $20.5K price cut happened so ordered it 2am 14 January 2023 and picked it up In Nashville 6 days later. This is one happy old man. Build date is January 2023 Austin Texas. Getting it for the price of the ariya was unbelievable.. I now have over a thousand miles on the Model Y. It's my second new car. The 1973 Datun 1200 was my first new car. I have a 50 year history with Nissan.

We have similar stories but you made out better with the price cuts and tax credits.

I’m a 76 year old man with a 50+ year history with Nissan/Datsun. I owned a 240Z, a 260Z, 280Z, a 300ZX turbo, and a Datsun 510 wagon

 

[BeyondBeLeaf]

Good points. I love our 2016 SL that received the 40 kilowatt hour battery pack in 2020. The Ariya announcement got my attention until they finally put a price on the thing. Being 72 it became clear Tesla Model Y duel motor long range would be best for me but price hikes had it around $67K .On 12 Jan 2023 my son said just ordered it . Then $20.5K price cut happened so ordered it 2am 14 January 2023 and picked it up In Nashville 6 days later. This is one happy old man. Build date is January 2023 Austin Texas. Getting it for the price of the ariya was unbelievable.. I now have over a thousand miles on the Model Y. It's my second new car. The 1973 Datun 1200 was my first new car. I have a 50 year history with Nissan.

We have similar stories but you made out better with the price cuts and tax credits.

I’m a 76 year old man with a 50+ year history with Nissan/Datsun. I owned a 240Z, a 260Z, 280Z, a 300ZX turbo, and a Datsun 510 wagon

The new Z looked intriguing to me, but the markups were insane. I am glad that Nissan decided to let you order it with a manual, but I got my "manual" itch scratched via a different toy. I do wish it was more competitive with the Supra 3.0, but at least Nissan is still building vehicles for enthusiasts.

Just something I tell every auto enthusiast, the next few years might be the last time you get to order an ICE performance vehicle with a manual transmission. Might be a good time to get something before everyone panics and the wait times spike the prices again.

 

[cxhansen]

I bought my 2023 Leaf SV Plus a few days ago. Full disclosure: this was my first new car purchase in 30 years, so I was bound to have buyer's remorse about something. The dealer did not help the new car buying experience. They didn't finish programming the vehicle and didn't include the EVSE, so I need to drive 50mi tomorrow (out of my work day) to get that straightened out.

Since I didn't have a way to charge at home, I had to confront the public charging realities much sooner than I would have otherwise. I gingerly drove to several broken charging stations before finding an L2 charger. Given that it only charges 10%/h, I realized that I really needed a CHAdeMO charger. There are only two within a few miles of my house. I went to one, waited for it to become available, and plugged in. I think it only charged ~16kW—a far lower rate than the 100 kW theoretical maximum. While I was there, two Kia Soul EV drivers queued up waiting. We chatted and I learned that since the US is standardizing on CCS, CHAdeMO chargers are much less common than even five years ago. Electrify America typically installs 3-6 CCS slots and only one CHAdeMO. The Soul owners were dead behind the eyes as they described how much time they spend waiting for a charge.

I see that even the 2023 Nissan Ariya uses CCS, so it appears that the Leaf is the only car sold in the US that uses CHAdeMO. I have to assume that in 3-5 years, there will be virtually no CHAdeMO chargers left in the US. If I had known that, I would have either bought a Tesla Model 3 or waited 6-12 months for how the EV market and supply chain issues shook out.

I don't anticipate driving long range with the Leaf often, but I'm disappointed that my brand new car was built with completely obsolete charging technology. Ask me next week, but if someone asked me, "Why would anyone but a Nissan Leaf right now?" the answer would be that nobody should.

 

[GaleHawkins]

A Leaf can make sense if one charges at home and never use over 40

 

[user 24513]

I don't anticipate driving long range with the Leaf often, but I'm disappointed that my brand new car was built with completely obsolete charging technology. Ask me next week, but if someone asked me, "Why would anyone but a Nissan Leaf right now?" the answer would be that nobody should.

I am going to predict that you will not regret this purchase as much after you get an EVSE installed at home and find out where the ChadeMo locations are- we have had Leafs for over 5 years and essentially charge all the time from home, at night getting off-peak rates. The DCFC system is OK for traveling, at least in the Northeast, thruway trips are relatively trouble-free and we don't mind waiting half an hour or so every 3 hours to get a charge and a snack. Think of it this way: as there become fewer ChadeMo cars on the road the lines for the EVSE will become shorter!

 

[WetEV]

Since I didn't have a way to charge at home, I had to confront the public charging realities much sooner than I would have otherwise. I gingerly drove to several broken charging stations before finding an L2 charger. Given that it only charges 10%/h,

This rate is fine if you are at home, resting, eating, playing, sleeping. Even with a Tesla or something nicer you will find charging at home is a real plus when compared with ICE cars. Even 120V aka L1 aka granny charging aka trickle charging is better than waiting for a public charger.

BTW: the rate was probably slow because the battery was cold. After a long drive, the battery will be warmer, and will charge faster in the winter. In the summer, the reverse.

I see that even the 2023 Nissan Ariya uses CCS, so it appears that the Leaf is the only car sold in the US that uses CHAdeMO. I have to assume that in 3-5 years, there will be virtually no CHAdeMO chargers left in the US. If I had known that, I would have either bought a Tesla Model 3 or waited 6-12 months for how the EV market and supply chain issues shook out.

As there will be Chademo cars on the road for more than a decade, I'd guess that there will be some Chademo support for that long. Several brands are still installing 1 Chademo for every CCS. Getting to and from Sleeping Buffalo, MT will always be a problem, however.

I don't anticipate driving long range with the Leaf often, but I'm disappointed that my brand new car was built with completely obsolete charging technology. Ask me next week, but if someone asked me, "Why would anyone but a Nissan Leaf right now?" the answer would be that nobody should.

When I bought my Leaf there was no Chademo chargers in Washington State, and I thought I'd never use the fast charging port. Charging at home and/or work means a very pleasant commute, and that was my entire plan at that point. That plan still works, and will work even after the very last Chademo in North America is scrapped.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

120 new Chademo Locations in Jan 2023 alone.

https://www.reddit.com/r/leaf/comments/10vnt9t/new_us_chademo_fast_chargers_in_january_2023/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

 

[frontrangeleaf]

EVGO just installed 6 bays at our local King Soopers, all 1:1 CCS to Chademo.

Not of any interest to us, as it's about a mile from our house, but there you go. Still being deployed as new.

 

[ENIAC]

I wonder if used LEAF sales are increasing as a result of the used EV tax credit? The sale has to be through a dealer and you get a 30% tax credit up to $4,000.

 

[SageBrush]

I wonder if used LEAF sales are increasing as a result of the used EV tax credit? The sale has to be through a dealer and you get a 30% tax credit up to $4,000.

Not in play yet

 

[SageBrush]

I don't anticipate driving long range with the Leaf often, but I'm disappointed that my brand new car was built with completely obsolete charging technology. Ask me next week, but if someone asked me, "Why would anyone but a Nissan Leaf right now?" the answer would be that nobody should.

You can see by the other responses that people realize the LEAF is not a general purpose car. I found the LEAF use case unacceptable since I wanted to only own one car. However, I really am not tempted by long drives so I bought a Bolt that would let me travel ~ 200 miles one way without aggravation. In the Bolt DC charging is slow but widespread enough for where I might travel, and improving rapidly. For the odd trip that the Bolt is a poor choice I'll rent a Tesla.

CHAdeMO is on the way out, often broken, and not maintained. That is today. In the future it will be worse. I really do think that a LEAF buyer should view the car as not having DC charging. Doing otherwise is likely to lead to buyer's remorse.

As said above, your slow DC charging was due to a cold battery. Tesla and a few other EVs warm up the battery before you arrive at the charging station to solve this problem. It is usually called 'battery pre-conditioning.' LEAF does not have this feature

The above covers winter charging and DC charging. The LEAF has other major problems, including rapid gating in the summer (presuming DC charging is available), and more rapid battery degradation compared to EVs with battery pack thermal control. Then you get to consider the generally poor experience at Nissan dealerships, sky high repair costs in the context of overall good reliability, and absolutely terrible customer service from Nissan.

I would not go so far as to say that nobody should buy a LEAF, but I think it better be dirt cheap. The LEAF I owned cost me $7k to buy. That made for a high value ownership experience.

 

[Wakyak]

120 new Chademo Locations in Jan 2023 alone.

https://www.reddit.com/r/leaf/comments/10vnt9t/new_us_chademo_fast_chargers_in_january_2023/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

That's reassuring. I had heard late last year that more charging stations were coming but I didn't expect them to roll out so quickly.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

I haven't looked closely in other parts of the country, but a handful of new Chseo locations appeared in Chicagoland just in the past couple months. Not much luck with the barren middle of Illinois getting more infra though.

Kia/Hyundai dealers (and Nissan) are mainly adding the dual handles, so very happy to have more choices.