Work Commuter Car - 2020 (or newer) Plus

[wildneg]

So not sure the best place to ask this but wanted to get some real insight from Leaf folks.

I'm looking for a pure EV to commute to work 3 days a week, 180 miles round trip. So maybe 2500 miles a month. I was looking at bolts but I must have Adaptive Cruise Control and hopefully Lane Centering. I have a older care with just cruise control and the drive home during a lot of traffic is destroying me. So ACC is a must and hope is, it'll help me not be so stressed driving home.

I am seeing a lot of leaf plus(S) out there that have maybe 40k miles or even less that is at the price range I'm comfortable spending. This will be my first EV and I do not want to spend a lot of money on something I'm going to rack up miles on and not even sure how well EV will work out for me.

So my concern and kind of question to you all is the reliability of the battery. Everything I read is complaints about the 'air cooling' and how the batteries do not last long without replacement (100k and some say your lucky to get 200k). But once I read into it, it is always people doing a lot of fast charging. In my scenario, I would not be fast charging. I will be charging with level 2 at home and then MAYBE level 2 at work if I will not have enough battery to get home. I can see this happening during winter.

With the Plus, it sounds like it is a good car for highway driving and the 'ProPilot' or whatever it is called will help me out alot. But me driving 160-180 miles round trip (Depending on what express way it takes me home), I'm hoping I can charge at home most of the time (or just top off at work when needed). I do know cold and driving 70-75mph will lower the full range I can get but I'm OK with all that I think. I can adapt and charge at work for an hour or two to get enough to get home. Rates at work are x4 my home rate per kWh. But I'll be doing L2 charging only. Never will take this on any long trips that would require fast charging / L3.

The other things I was reading was using these in very hot weather. Even if not L3 charging, the battery can overheat just doing express way driving. Does that even sound right? Is there a chance the car may slow down on an express way, stop and go driving... if the battery gets to hot? Its 100 degrees driving home sometimes and even worst on hot asphalt with tons of other cars not moving.

So I guess the real questions are...
- With a 2020 or newer, with say 40K miles and I would only be doing L2 charging, can I expect the batteries to stay healthy and not degrade too much? Allowing me to put 200K miles on the car/batteries?
- Driving in extremely cold weather (and car sitting outside charging all night), will I see any issues? Does the batteries at least keep themselves heated (pre conditioned)? I know the bolt they said to leave plugged in because it'll use electricity once 100% to keep the batteries warm and then pre-condition the car so your ready for your trip in the morning. I guess same goes for work, if I do not charge there and its -10 degrees, does the car use electricity on the side to make sure the batteries stay warmed up?
- Driving in extreme heat (100 degrees lets say), doing L2 charging, will I see any issues or be concerned that it will overheat and not let me keep up with traffic on express way?

I just want to make sure I'm getting something that will function/work like a Bolt with the air cooled batteries. I feel like you all would know best and if it is worth the investment in a used Leaf. Thanks in advance!

 

[danelo]

If you want electric you need to buy something with a bigger battery. You will use more or less 100% of your range on each trip. You also lose about 10% to 15% in capacity when it is cold outside. Seems like even around 35 degrees you start to lose a bit. Maybe if you are willing to charge it most of the time when you are work you may be fine.

I think the car does have some preconditioning type aspect to it. Don't know since I never used them.

I don't have much to add as far as battery temperature. Too many factors at play. In Phoenix when it is 118 outside my temp gauge is around 85% to the first red dot on the temperature gauge. This is with mostly only city driving, no highway.

 

[Vincerama]

Every used car will have a different max battery capacity, depending on how the previous owner used it. When I bought my 2011 Leaf in 2015, I didn't realize this and I was extremely disappointed that the battery was used badly and had a max range of 50 miles. I read up on the Nissan Leaf battery warranty for 2011 /2012 Leafs and it turns out the batteries sucked in hot weather so nissan offered a 60 month (5 years) and 60,000 mile warranty that if your battery dropped from "12 bars" of charge capacity down to "9 bars" they'd swap if for you. I had 10 bars at 58 months. I was pissed, then one day when driving to work, I glanced at the battery thing and it had ... 9 bars. I called Nissan that day after getting to work and in the afternoon I drove it to Nissan and asked them if the warranty applied ... it did. Guy was shocked, but they then proceeded to give me the newer 2015 battery that is more heat resistant.

The point of my story? I dodge a bullet that I loaded for myself by not understanding the battery degradation issue of EVs. Worse, I bought the first gen Leaf that had the 85 mile battery that was owned by a woman in Sacramento (according to the "home" button in the gps map!) and she probably used the high power DC charge port A LOT because the battery was so worn out.

So you really have to approach EACH SPECIMEN of used car as it's own specific example. I mean saying 2020 Leaf doesn't tell you anything until you get in the car, turn it on and check how many "bars" of battery capacity are left. You never know what a full charge is. If you go to look at a used car, call ahead and ask them to fully charge the battery so you can see what the max current battery capacity is. If you buy a 2020 expecting 220 miles, you'll be disappointed if the car was used in hot weather and always charged to 100%.

I still have the car and it's still a daily local driver.

 

[BillAinCT]

If you charge to 80% at both home and work thus keeping the battery at a happier place, you would be fine even in winter driving the 90 miles each way (with a plus). I love the Pro-pilot for both lane assist and ACC. I've driven over an hour on a number of occurrences without lifting my feet off of the floor mat. I agree it will lower your stress of driving. I've had it take me all the way down to 5mph in stop and go traffic and I just let it go with the flow.

 

[Chad E. Mo]

I do a 100mi round trip 3, 4 times per week. The 2020 SV+ is great for that, plus an extra small side trip or two. (My battery is in good health with all bars showing on the dash and a ~90% SoH in the LeafSpy Pro app. )

180mi round trip could be cutting it very close in good weather, at 65mph. A few hours L2 charge midway would be the best assurance for an anxiety-free return trip, especially in winter. I lose about 25% range in the cold.

I agree that ProPilot is very helpful. It is better at the ACC than the steering, but I use both daily. ACC works all the way to a full stop, then a touch of the accel pedal engages it again even at 5mph.

I'd get a bt OBD reader and leafspy pro to check the cell status and overall battery health before plunking down the dough.

 

[Bombastinator2]

If you want electric you need to buy something with a bigger battery. You will use more or less 100% of your range on each trip. You also lose about 10% to 15% in capacity when it is cold outside. Seems like even around 35 degrees you start to lose a bit. Maybe if you are willing to charge it most of the time when you are work you may be fine.

I think the car does have some preconditioning type aspect to it. Don't know since I never used them.

I don't have much to add as far as battery temperature. Too many factors at play. In Phoenix when it is 118 outside my temp gauge is around 85% to the first red dot on the temperature gauge. This is with mostly only city driving, no highway.

I lose nearly 50%. It’s quite dependent on how cold it gets. Also different models of battery will behave differently. Another thing to remember is that EV “miles” are a lot more like points. Range varies with all sorts of factors.

What you are describing is right on the edge of what a plus can do. If you bought a plus you could probably (only probably) make it work, but you might have to pull some hypermiling tricks. (Like no air-con or heater. There are a bunch) Hard to know until it’s tried.

I would say go with a car with a longer range battery in this case. 300-400 miles. More cushion. It’s kind of like rescue helicopters and bingo fuel.

One option I suppose is see if the thing will do it. Rent the thing and try it. It might work. And if it doesn’t you’ll know.

It’s got to be round trip too. You could be driving into or out of a valley. The move would be to charge the car up full, take a peek at leafspy to determine what’s what, drive it to the area, take another peek at leafspy, and find a place to charge it. It could be anything from a stage 3 charger to a wall outlet. Charge it up to where you feel safe, then drive back. When you get home take a third peek at leafspy, do the math, and you’ll know if you can do the round trip or not. Now if there is an always available wall outlet you can plug into while working you can do this without even needing a plus. An S will do it just fine.

 

[atikovi]

180 mile round trip is pushing it. I would suggest something like a 2020 Corolla hybrid I had recently. Easily gets over 60 mpg and has all the driver assists. Steers itself down the highway and brakes automatically. In bumper to bumper traffic you don't even have to touch the pedals or steering wheel.

 

[Bombastinator2]

A long range tesla would also do it. To have a comfortable cushion I’d say go for a 300mi car for round trip. (Probably any 300mi car. 240 is just too close for me. If there is an outlet you can plug into at work though you could probably do it with a short range leaf though. Part of the problem is the trip is just so much of an unknown. Traffic, hills, and outside temp all play a part.

 

[atikovi]

A long range tesla would also do it.

Heck no if you want to take it to 200K as the OP said. A battery replacement STARTS at $15,000.

 

[Bombastinator2]

Heck no if you want to take it to 200K as the OP said. A battery replacement STARTS at $15,000.

Teslas that do 80/20 have been pulling 400k and 500k. You’re right in that it’s generally not worth replacing the battery on a Tesla.

 

[atikovi]

It's a gamble. I bought two 2013s this year to sell. The one with 142,000 miles turned out ok. The one with 199,000 miles wouldn't charge to more than 30 miles range. After a few rounds of level 1 charging I was able to get the range back up to 140 miles and sold it to someone that wanted to use it for testing some of his ideas on battery restoration. Plus it had free lifetime supercharging. I did ok on it only because I bought it cheap. Maybe the newer ones are better but a 2020+ is going to be a lot more money than a Leaf.

 

[Jim Bodacious]

So not sure the best place to ask this but wanted to get some real insight from Leaf folks.

I'm looking for a pure EV to commute to work 3 days a week, 180 miles round trip. So maybe 2500 miles a month. I was looking at bolts but I must have Adaptive Cruise Control and hopefully Lane Centering. I have a older care with just cruise control and the drive home during a lot of traffic is destroying me. So ACC is a must and hope is, it'll help me not be so stressed driving home.

I am seeing a lot of leaf plus(S) out there that have maybe 40k miles or even less that is at the price range I'm comfortable spending. This will be my first EV and I do not want to spend a lot of money on something I'm going to rack up miles on and not even sure how well EV will work out for me.

So my concern and kind of question to you all is the reliability of the battery. Everything I read is complaints about the 'air cooling' and how the batteries do not last long without replacement (100k and some say your lucky to get 200k). But once I read into it, it is always people doing a lot of fast charging. In my scenario, I would not be fast charging. I will be charging with level 2 at home and then MAYBE level 2 at work if I will not have enough battery to get home. I can see this happening during winter.

With the Plus, it sounds like it is a good car for highway driving and the 'ProPilot' or whatever it is called will help me out alot. But me driving 160-180 miles round trip (Depending on what express way it takes me home), I'm hoping I can charge at home most of the time (or just top off at work when needed). I do know cold and driving 70-75mph will lower the full range I can get but I'm OK with all that I think. I can adapt and charge at work for an hour or two to get enough to get home. Rates at work are x4 my home rate per kWh. But I'll be doing L2 charging only. Never will take this on any long trips that would require fast charging / L3.

The other things I was reading was using these in very hot weather. Even if not L3 charging, the battery can overheat just doing express way driving. Does that even sound right? Is there a chance the car may slow down on an express way, stop and go driving... if the battery gets to hot? Its 100 degrees driving home sometimes and even worst on hot asphalt with tons of other cars not moving.

So I guess the real questions are...
- With a 2020 or newer, with say 40K miles and I would only be doing L2 charging, can I expect the batteries to stay healthy and not degrade too much? Allowing me to put 200K miles on the car/batteries?
- Driving in extremely cold weather (and car sitting outside charging all night), will I see any issues? Does the batteries at least keep themselves heated (pre conditioned)? I know the bolt they said to leave plugged in because it'll use electricity once 100% to keep the batteries warm and then pre-condition the car so your ready for your trip in the morning. I guess same goes for work, if I do not charge there and its -10 degrees, does the car use electricity on the side to make sure the batteries stay warmed up?
- Driving in extreme heat (100 degrees lets say), doing L2 charging, will I see any issues or be concerned that it will overheat and not let me keep up with traffic on express way?

I just want to make sure I'm getting something that will function/work like a Bolt with the air cooled batteries. I feel like you all would know best and if it is worth the investment in a used Leaf. Thanks in advance!

My Plus tells me every morning that I have 200+ miles range. But that is only possible at city speed (like 40-45). Given expressway speed and your distance, a Plus will not go your commuting distance only one charge and will still need a charge at work to provide enough energy cushion for the return home. Especially true if your climbing in elevation going home, as that increases energy consumption. This is even more significant as the battery naturally degrades over time. I notice the greater loss of range as temperatures drop below freezing, but barely noticeable loss during 90-100 degree weather. If it comes with ACC, it will probably have the ability for you to set a precondition warm-up feature. I leave mine plugged in all night on L2 charging with that feature set to precondition at my departure time, and it's nice. A 2020 or newer Leaf will automatically keep batteries warm when temperatures go below zero, or something like that, as that is the dangerous temperature range for the batteries. It is better if it is plugged into AC power for that function. I love my ACC with lane assist on my commute, as it practically drives itself.

 

[Bombastinator2]

My Plus tells me every morning that I have 200+ miles range. But that is only possible at city speed (like 40-45). Given expressway speed and your distance, a Plus will not go your commuting distance only one charge and will still need a charge at work to provide enough energy cushion for the return home. Especially true if your climbing in elevation going home, as that increases energy consumption. This is even more significant as the battery naturally degrades over time. I notice the greater loss of range as temperatures drop below freezing, but barely noticeable loss during 90-100 degree weather. If it comes with ACC, it will probably have the ability for you to set a precondition warm-up feature. I leave mine plugged in all night on L2 charging with that feature set to precondition at my departure time, and it's nice. A 2020 or newer Leaf will automatically keep batteries warm when temperatures go below zero, or something like that, as that is the dangerous temperature range for the batteries. It is better if it is plugged into AC power for that function. I love my ACC with lane assist on my commute, as it practically drives itself.

Yeah. “Miles” are like points IMHO. They're not unuseful, but they’re definitely arbitrary. In theory the “miles” conform to your driving style. I’ve heard it referred to as the “guessometer”. I pay more attention to th percentage of battery left myself.

 

[cornbinder89]

If you can't charge at or near work, then I'd say no Leaf will fit what you are trying to do. If you can charge (either at work or somewhere else close by) that cuts the range required to around 90 miles. That is doable, reliably in hot and cold weather.
However, for that use, a hybrid is likely a better fit with that much highway travel.

 

[Bombastinator2]

If you can't charge at or near work, then I'd say no Leaf will fit what you are trying to do. If you can charge (either at work or somewhere else close by) that cuts the range required to around 90 miles. That is doable, reliably in hot and cold weather.
However, for that use, a hybrid is likely a better fit with that much highway travel.

This seems to be more or less true. If only by accounting for current battery technology. I don’t think it will stay true, but afaik there isn’t a leaf that I think could reliably do this round trip. You’d want 300-400 miles of range and only a few electrics have that. The leaf isn’t one of them. It might do it some of the time, but you need it to do it EVERY time. It has to be able to absorb unforeseen circumstances