SageBrush
Forum Supporter
Posts: 5818
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:32 am

cwerdna wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:32 am
If you look at https://www.epa.gov/automotive-trends like https://www.epa.gov/automotive-trends/h ... nds-report, you'll see that since 1975, fuel economy has gone way up (and thus CO2 emissions down) and horsepower has gone considerably up since 1980.
I know that cherry picking is your daily bread and butter, but here is a general overview of the ICE state of affairs
https://www.consumerreports.org/fuel-ec ... rformance/

It was, and remains, pathetic. Doubly so if you exclude hybrids. And as for performance, that mostly boils down to turbo additions that pollute horribly but get by regulatory testing. Are you going to sing the praises of clean diesel now ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 16428
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:39 am

Back off a bit, Sagebrush. Cwerdna is correct, in that large improvements in ICE efficiency AND pollution reduction have occurred in the last 25 years. The fact that manufacturers have chosen to use these improvements mainly to increase horsepower, rather than greatly increase fuel economy, is not a reflection on the engine designs. It's a reflection on both the priorities of the auto manufacturers and of the car buying public, driven by the advertising industry. There have been early exceptions that were later rolled back, like the first Hondas with the CVCC engines. They were both faster AND got fantastic fuel economy. Then later on, Honda started making the Civics and Accords bigger and bigger, heavier and heavier. The engines started growing in displacement to partially compensate, and both fuel economy suffered while in most cases performance either stayed the same or dropped a bit. This is exactly why we need ever-increasing fuel economy standards.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

jjeff
Posts: 2273
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:32 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:39 am
Back off a bit, Sagebrush. Cwerdna is correct, in that large improvements in ICE efficiency AND pollution reduction have occurred in the last 25 years. The fact that manufacturers have chosen to use these improvements mainly to increase horsepower, rather than greatly increase fuel economy, is not a reflection on the engine designs. It's a reflection on both the priorities of the auto manufacturers and of the car buying public, driven by the advertising industry. There have been early exceptions that were later rolled back, like the first Hondas with the CVCC engines. They were both faster AND got fantastic fuel economy. Then later on, Honda started making the Civics and Accords bigger and bigger, heavier and heavier. The engines started growing in displacement to partially compensate, and both fuel economy suffered while in most cases performance either stayed the same or dropped a bit. This is exactly why we need ever-increasing fuel economy standards.
+1 it's like mfgs. and especially auto press is infatuated with more and more HP. I watch PBS's Motorweek and they are basically never happy with engine HP and speed, they always want more HP and more speed :roll: Same with auto mags, it's all about more and more, MPG gets mentioned but is generally low on the priority list. Of course it's not just the press but people must by into it too, if they refused to purchase Chrystler vehicles(most of them are what I'd describe as energy pigs, especially Dodge) they'd be forced to make more efficient vehicles. While our Prius gets great MPG it's not that much better than my new purchased '94 Geo Metro that got close to 50 MPG Hwy and similar city. At the time I was also looking at the Honda Civic VX? that got AFAIR close to 60MPG Hwy and 50 city, neither relied on batteries/hybrid technology, they were both just designed for efficiency. Sure the Metro was very light, underpowered and not particularly safe compared to say the Prius but just saying, if a mfg. wants to make an efficient vehicle they can, it just has to be a priority and not HP and speed oh and tire sizes! My Geo had 155? 12" tires and still could cruise down the freeway at 70 and get close to 50mpg 8-)
I have no time for inefficiently designed cars, MPG and now EV range is basically at the top of my list for a given vehicle style. I feel if more people shopped like this we'd have many better-designed vehicles but I know other people have different priorities and I guess that's OK too.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

danrjones
Posts: 893
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:09 pm

What do you suggest though for EVs? Performance has also been a metric, especially for tesla. I have a reservation for the cyber truck. I would be perfectly happy with 8 second 0 to 60 times and rwd for my ev truck. I certainly don't need tri motors. But to get 500 miles of range, I am forced to buy Performance I do not want.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 16428
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:22 pm

Tell this to Tesla. Explain that you want decent performance and great range, in a package that you can afford.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

danrjones
Posts: 893
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:51 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:22 pm
Tell this to Tesla. Explain that you want decent performance and great range, in a package that you can afford.
If only I used Twitter right? Then I might be able to get Elons attention...
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

BrockWI
Posts: 854
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:28 am
Delivery Date: 28 Mar 2014
Leaf Number: 423875
Location: Green Bay, WI.
Contact: Website

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:02 pm

The flip side though is adding more HP to an electric vehicle doesn't significantly decrease overall efficiency where it does in ICE's, there is some penalty, but no where near what ice have, sort of a have your cake and eat it to, if you can keep your foot off the go pedal.

I know our whopping 90hp 2003 VW diesel wagon didn't have a lot of get up and go, but dang I regularly got 60 mpg with it. I remember when we were getting the car so many people wanted us to wait a year because the next model had 15 more hp and 5 less highway mpg. They also tried to get us to look at the gasser with 2.5 times the hp and got in the upper 20's, not having that...
2013 S W/QC Mar of 2013
110k miles - 52.24Ahr - 79.88SOH - 71.33Hx - 227GID
2018 Tesla Model 3 SR+ 32k miles
3.3 kw solar pv - XW6048 - eight L16's
4 ton GSHP - 1 ton ASHP
2003 VW TDI 220k miles - 51 mpg lifetime

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 16428
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:24 pm

danrjones wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:51 pm
LeftieBiker wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:22 pm
Tell this to Tesla. Explain that you want decent performance and great range, in a package that you can afford.
If only I used Twitter right? Then I might be able to get Elons attention...
Don't look at me - I never use it either. Or Facebook, Spotify, or any of those other millennial drugs.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Forum Supporter
Posts: 5818
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:09 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:24 pm
Don't look at me - I never use it either. Or Facebook, Spotify, or any of those other millennial drugs.
Funny. I never thought of the social medias as an addiction but it does have that flavor.

Count me in the curmudgeon corps. I cannot tolerate the incessant nagging or deluge of trivia, and the echo chamber of disinformation makes me want to puke.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 16428
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:56 am

My sole experience of Facebook was with a local EV group. The "owner" of the group was on an ego trip and started editing my posts when he didn't like them. I was one of the few successful FB escapees.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Return to “Other Electric Cars & Plug-In Hybrids”