Volkswagen ID.4 CUV

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
GetOffYourGas said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
what they are doing now makes no sense other than buttering their own. The real question is whether they will have enough bread for all that butter?[/b]

Once again, you are ignoring all other car makes. GM, Ford, BMW, even Nissan (Ariya) - they have all gone to CCS. It's not about buttering their own. I would wager that the number of CCS cars on US roads outnumber the CHAdeMO cars by a wide margin today, and that margin grows every month (the Bolt alone outsells the Leaf every quarter).
Yep. Add the Koreans to the CCS list. And Volvo. And Fiat. And ....

... well, it's easier to say yesterday's Nissan, and another dozen or so other cars.
 
GetOffYourGas said:
True. Kia is another one that switched from CHAdeMO to CCS in the US. The old Soul EVs were CHAdeMO but their Niro EV is CCS.

Does CHAdeMO even support the new 800v architectures that the Koreans and others are starting to use?
I know EA is limited because of cable certifications.

Seems like asking, "Would you rather charge at 350 kW in the future, or 50?"

I'll take 350! I don't know if CHAdeMO will die tomorrow or in two decades, but I know my next EV will be CCS.
 
SageBrush said:
Astros said:
As far as Chademo dying out, I'm pretty sure support and maintenance is built in to the Electrify America requirements, so it will at least last another 8 or so years.
The consent decree was signed in 2016/2017. IIRC the EA part runs 10 years. If VW builds a successful EV market in the USA then I can imagine them keeping EA; if not, EA may go up for sale circa 2026.
If Ford builds a successful EV business in the USA, they would want EA to remain free, as in freedom.
If GM builds a successful EV business in the USA, they would want EA to remain free, as in freedom.
If Nissan builds a successful EV business in the USA, they would want EA to remain free, as in freedom.

Closed proprietary standards are evil.
 
danrjones said:
Does CHAdeMO even support the new 800v architectures that the Koreans and others are starting to use?
I know EA is limited because of cable certifications.

Yes CHAdeMO supports 1000V not just 800V so the standard supports 400KW charging. There are no such stations in north America. China may have it as they are codeveloping 900KW with Chaoji.

Speed is not the problem. Regardless of the reason in North America CHAdeMO is on the way out.
 
One of my Tesla owning coworkers had their roof glass crack in an automatic carwash (I assume not brushless?). He had a fight with the car wash operator and their insurance over it. That made me not like top glass as much, a pain in the butt piece of glass to potentially replace. The ID.4 looks nice but the roof glass is a bit of a turnoff for me personally.
 
The inability to get a Tesla Model 3 w/a metal roof (that got nixed) is one of numerous reasons why I ruled out that car in Jan 2019 when I was in the market. That + numerous other factors for a car that at the time was at least $12K more than my Bolt (w/heavy incentives and after tax credit back then) sealed the deal. Why would I pay over $12K more for such a car?
 
Here is another excellent Bjorn Nyland test of the ID.4.
He is the only reviewer I know of who understands the importance of testing EVs in winter conditions. He called it 'spring' in Norway; I would call it mild winter. Outside was 5 - 10C, and the battery started out at 5C. He pre-conditioned the car before his test.

Of note:
  • 1. The pre-conditioning did not heat up the battery, so 2 kWh of battery power was spent heating up the battery from 5C to ~ 15C during the drive
  • After driving up a mountain, the car still cold-gated during charging at 62 kW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Is0aQDJJ2wc
 
Not really surprising in light of the overall semi-conductor chip shortage affecting all major auto mfg's it seems but the debut of the AWD version of the ID.4 has pushed its US release out to Oct to Dec of this year from over the summer. Whether its this or battery shortages or possibly on-going development who knows but its delayed.

I had the chance to do a brief test drive of the 1st edition RWD version and enjoyed it - its not especially quick like most Tesla's but sufficient for most types of driving to be quick enough (e.g. freeway ramps, merging, etc.). Interior is very quiet and handles rough roads well (this one had the bigger than standard wheels so that's a plus). Back seat and cargo area is a bit bigger than expected (similar to current VW Tiguan in overall size) and fit and finish was quite good. Only negative for me (despite assurances from VW rep who road along) would be all the white surface materials used for the steering wheel, column and gear selector -- its synthetic and will avoid stains but unlike seats you need to touch the steering wheel with your bare hands and could see it easily getting discolored or wearing out more easily than just black material. It will be available in black as well so easily avoided -- does stand out for sure when you get into it for the first time; brightens up the interior just like white/light colored seats.

I put an order in for an AWD version to replace my last ICE a VW Touareg as wanted to stay in the VW family with this EV replacement awhile back and VW reached out (2nd time -- they also offered a 1st edition when they upped its initial run) as the intro of the AWD was to be after this one - have looked at a few alternatives but haven't seen anything to peak enough interest that's out in the market just quite yet. Have driven a number of Model Y's and while quite popular - just not as fun to drive for me as my (2nd) Model 3. The Touareg EV replacement will need its utility and AWD so will keep looking for something to swap it out with by year end -- have checked out the Volvo XC40 but that one seems to have some teething pains and will wait and see on the Hyundai Ioniq 5; although smaller appears to have a decent cargo space - we'll see!

Thought this was worth sharing as AWD is what a lot of people in snow belt states will be waiting for; and yes, years ago before AWD we all dealt with snow tire swap outs and in practice my first M3 which was RWD was fine in all but the deepest snow w/o snow tires but why go w/RWD when AWD is available at a modest premium ($3,680) that will include a 2nd electric motor and heated windshield with it?
 
redLEAF said:
why go w/RWD when AWD is available at a modest premium ($3,680) that will include a 2nd electric motor and heated windshield with it?

The only reason I can think of other than saving $3680 is for greater efficiency. Some dual motor EVs take more power than single mother.
Does it affect storage space at all? Some like the Ariya give up storage space for the dual motor. The ID.4 has a lot more space than the Ariya, which is a big deal.
 
YMMV but I wouldn't pay extra for AWD, not if I already have it on another vehicle. 99.99% of the time I don't need AWD. I'd take the lower cost and higher range. Caveat: I'm in CA, and I already have a Subaru Outback. If I only had one total vehicle I might decide differently.

Plus, my Leaf right now only costs me about 225 per month. Obviously more than 1 year loan, but still, that would be paying more for AWD than my monthly payment for my Leaf.
 
danrjones said:
YMMV but I wouldn't pay extra for AWD, not if I already have it on another vehicle. 99.99% of the time I don't need AWD. I'd take the lower cost and higher range. Caveat: I'm in CA, and I already have a Subaru Outback. If I only had one total vehicle I might decide differently.

Plus, my Leaf right now only costs me about 225 per month. Obviously more than 1 year loan, but still, that would be paying more for AWD than my monthly payment for my Leaf.

AWD is over-valued in ICE cars because people mistakenly think it substitutes for winter tyres and it is relatively expensive to implement. It is cheaper to implement in EVs, and Tesla at least mostly markets it as extra acceleration, and at times has only produced AWD cars to streamline production.

Informed consumers know that AWD is 90% marketing hype, and if they really want good winter performance they need winter tyres regardless.
 
SageBrush said:
danrjones said:
YMMV but I wouldn't pay extra for AWD, not if I already have it on another vehicle. 99.99% of the time I don't need AWD. I'd take the lower cost and higher range. Caveat: I'm in CA, and I already have a Subaru Outback. If I only had one total vehicle I might decide differently.

Plus, my Leaf right now only costs me about 225 per month. Obviously more than 1 year loan, but still, that would be paying more for AWD than my monthly payment for my Leaf.

AWD is over-valued in ICE cars because people mistakenly think it substitutes for winter tyres and it is relatively expensive to implement. It is cheaper to implement in EVs, and Tesla at least mostly markets it as extra acceleration, and at times has only produced AWD cars to streamline production.

Informed consumers know that AWD is 90% marketing hype, and if they really want good winter performance they need winter tyres regardless.

Also, here in CA you need to carry chains anyway, or face a huge ticket. I'd rather have chains and snow tires on a 2WD vehicle, than neither but with AWD. I've heard chains are not as popular outside the west though.
 
danrjones said:
SageBrush said:
danrjones said:
YMMV but I wouldn't pay extra for AWD, not if I already have it on another vehicle. 99.99% of the time I don't need AWD. I'd take the lower cost and higher range. Caveat: I'm in CA, and I already have a Subaru Outback. If I only had one total vehicle I might decide differently.

Plus, my Leaf right now only costs me about 225 per month. Obviously more than 1 year loan, but still, that would be paying more for AWD than my monthly payment for my Leaf.

AWD is over-valued in ICE cars because people mistakenly think it substitutes for winter tyres and it is relatively expensive to implement. It is cheaper to implement in EVs, and Tesla at least mostly markets it as extra acceleration, and at times has only produced AWD cars to streamline production.

Informed consumers know that AWD is 90% marketing hype, and if they really want good winter performance they need winter tyres regardless.

Also, here in CA you need to carry chains anyway, or face a huge ticket. I'd rather have chains and snow tires on a 2WD vehicle, than neither but with AWD. I've heard chains are not as popular outside the west though.
Moreover, you should absolutely prefer a 2WD vehicle with winter tyres over AWD with 'all season' tyres
 
Yep. Winter tires are under-appreciated, and AWD arguably over-valued. There's no substitute for traction at the contact patch.

We run dedicated snow tires on separate wheels on all of our "year-round" vehicles. I usually go "-2" (narrower with taller profile is better in the slick, so 16" winter wheels paired with 18" 3-season wheels for example). Granted, in Denver, it tends to be really mild, until it's not. Most folks recoil from the thought of the added cost, but it's really just a one-time hit to get wheels, and then you spread your miles out over 2 sets of tires, so your running cost is basically the same. Although active TPMS does start to add up.

Not going to work for everyone, I get that, but you only have to avoid 1 accident a decade to see the payoff. In the 20 years that I've been using them, I've avoided at least 2 major accidents that would have totaled our car, and countless smaller ones. Doesn't take much to run up a repair bill that's several multiples more expensive than an extra set of tires every 4-5 years.

"All-seasons" in my mind should be either required to work in the winter (there's no performance requirement for that designation), or struck from commercial speech as a violation of truth-in-advertising. All-seasons are really 3-season tires anywhere winter is real. They should be marketed as 3-season tires. The newer "all-weather" tires that meet the performance requirements for the 3 mountain peak snowflake symbol are the only true all-season tires on the market.

On our Leaf, I did buy 17" wheels because I wanted wider rims for the 3-season tires. The stock wheels are already super narrow at 17x6.5". I put the snows on those. When the stock 3-season tires wear out, I'll go a little wider on the new wheels just for fun. Range isn't a concern for how we use this car.

Edit: clarity and typos
 
We absolutely need studded snows here on our mountain- ice and icy snow are the killers. The Leaf is as good as anything 2WD with studs on it EXCEPT in deep snow and mud season, when clearance is the issue and MOST AWD cars have more clearance. We bought a used Juke just for winter driving and put a lift kit in it for clearance, this also leaves the leaf in the garage when there is the worst salt on the roads. Any 2WD with studs stops as well as any AWD, but there are definitely times when AWD helps getting up hills.....
 
dmacarthur said:
Any 2WD with studs stops as well as any AWD, but there are definitely times when AWD helps getting up hills.....
Any 2WD stops as well as any AWD if the cars have the same tyres.
Any 2WD with winter tyres stops sooner than any AWD with non-winter tyres.

The main AWD advantage is in going uphill. I think it also has some cornering advantage, although that might be implementation dependent.

As I wrote earlier, the AWD hype is strong in America
 
As I wrote earlier, the AWD hype is strong in America


especially in cities, among people who may occasionally want to go to the "country". Country folks like little 2wd cars because they have a Jeep CJ-2A in the barn.
 
Back
Top