I'm probably in the market for another car; Update: being repaired

It took two tries to get the Ford dealership to understand I wanted to test drive a Mach-e, and not any Mustang. :roll: Makes me think back to when I first walked into a Nissan dealership in 2013 and they told me the LEAF salesman was on vacation for 2 weeks, so why don't I look at a Sentra instead.

I'm finding this a useful chart, and updated last week.

https://insideevs.com/reviews/344001/compare-evs/

jlv said:

For me, my Model S was a 75D with 350V battery, so it topped out SuperCharging at 120kW. When I bought it, that speed was originally 100kW, until Tesla uprated the v2 SuperChargers from 120kW to 150kW. I see the Niro EV maxes out at 77kW on CCS, and the ID.4 tops out at 125kW. Those speeds pretty much rules out me buying either of those as a new car. I was thinking if I have to get a new car I'd have much faster DC charging - e.g., 250kW on any new Tesla.

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It's not just the peak rate, it is the whole charging curve.

WetEV said:

jlv said:

For me, my Model S was a 75D with 350V battery, so it topped out SuperCharging at 120kW. When I bought it, that speed was originally 100kW, until Tesla uprated the v2 SuperChargers from 120kW to 150kW. I see the Niro EV maxes out at 77kW on CCS, and the ID.4 tops out at 125kW. Those speeds pretty much rules out me buying either of those as a new car. I was thinking if I have to get a new car I'd have much faster DC charging - e.g., 250kW on any new Tesla.

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It's not just the peak rate, it is the whole charging curve.

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I pay most attention to the 10% - 70% or 20% - 70% charging curve since I know that covers most of my expected driving and gives the best charging times. In a new LR Tesla with pre-conditioned battery one can expect to average 150 - 180 kW

jlv said:

It took two tries to get the Ford dealership to understand I wanted to test drive a Mach-e, and not any Mustang. :roll:

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Today was the day of looking at the "punctuation" EVs: Mach-e, ID.4, and e-tron.


The Mach-e was most disappointing. They gave me the car with a setting enabled to make engine "vroom vroom" sounds. WTF is that for?

It's GOM was equally baffling, saying 163 miles remaining when the battery was at 91%. That's because the displayed range is based upon recently driving. When I brought the car back it was at 175 miles and 89%. And there are dozens of buttons all over the place, including a big round knob in the bottom center of the touch screen. The Nav screen dated looking, reminding me of the one in my 2013 LEAF. I didn't even try to plot a long trip nor did I try lane keeping; I just wasn't interested at that point.

On the plus side, one-pedal driving was really nice and the car (Premium w/ large battery and eAWD) handled nicely. And it had a heated steering wheel. But those things didn't make up for the terrible controls.


The ID.4 was interesting. The interior was much nicer than the Mach-e and the controls far nicer. Just the right number of buttons (IMHO). The biggest annoyance was that the gear shifter was weird and in a weird location; I kept turning on the wipers. Driving modes were interesting with D/B adjusted by the mode setting (comfort, sport, and eco). The one-pedal driving did seem to brake harder than I'd like, but it was something I got used to quickly. The GOM was also based upon recently driving efficiency, and jumped around from 165 down to 125 and ended at 137 by the end of my trip, while the car was at about 45% SOC. The lane keeping was fine and worked well on a back country road.

I asked the Nav to plot a trip to Buffalo, NY. When I tried by voice, it asked if I wanted to go to Sommerville, MA. Huh!? Anyway, I pulled over and typed it into the Nav. It told me it would take 17 hours to make the 425 mile trip with just 2 charging stops: at a 50kW CCS at the MA/NY border for 4 hours and then at a 19kW CCS somewhere near Rochester NY for 7 hours. So I guess it doesn't have anything close to a comprehensive charging station database, because there are plenty of 175kW CCS on the way. My one big disappointment in the car.

There was no heated steering wheel. But it had a mechanized shade to cover the glass roof that was neat.

Overall the ID.4 seemed like a decent option. I could almost see myself driving it. For a small SUV it had a good sports car feel.


I struck out at 2 Audi dealerships with no e-trons of any type available to drive. I got to sit in a new one (still half covered in shipping wrap) just to see the inside. It had more buttons all over the inside than the ID.4, but nothing as silly as the Mach-e. I couldn't even power it up, so that's about all I can say. No GT around at all unless I wanted to see the $150K RS. And the delay was 4+ months if I ordered any of them. So I gave up on that.

My son leased a Niro EV last night and told about it, so I wanted to see one - even if it's slow CCS speed would rule it out as a trip car. Only 1 dealership showed any in stock in MA, but when I called them they told me there were none to see. But they told me to do business with them ("order now, to reserve one to see"), as they only charge MSRP, unlike other Kia dealers who have a $3-4K markup. I just hung up. :lol:

I also had a Model 3 overnight test drive from last evening until this morning. My wife and I put about 100 miles on it just driving around. (I spared her all those other dealership visits in my previous posts).

It took a little getting used to the lack of a display behind the steering wheel - actually, I'm not used to it at all. Last night in the dark I keep looking down to see the speed we were going and doing a double-take. I probably would get used to it after a couple of days, though.

So I went into all those other test drives having just experienced the Model 3, which was like putting on a familiar fitting glove. All those other cars were like ill-fitting gloves. I think I would be very serious in the ID.4 if I wasn't already this experienced with a Tesla. (Well, the lack of heated steering wheel would probably make me less serious).

Tesla has ruined me for other cars. I didn't realize how bad a Tesla snob I was until today.
Of course, when I said that to my wife, she said "I already knew how bad a Tesla snob you are". :lol: :roll:

jlv said:

Tesla has ruined me for other cars. I didn't realize how bad a Tesla snob I was until today.
Of course, when I said that to my wife, she said "I already knew how bad a Tesla snob you are". :lol: :roll:

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Leaf snob is a thing too when you compare the Gen 1 to Gen 2, at least that is what family and friends tell me when I ride around in their Gen 1 Leaf and I talk about adaptive cruise control, range, acceleration, the million different status screens on the dash now, etc. :lol:

I'm a different kind of Leaf Snob. Instead of insisting on Pro Pilot though, I look down my nose at cars with poor ease of entry and exit, no heated steering wheel, and a too-firm ride. I wonder how I'd like driving a gen I now...?

jlv said:

Tesla has ruined me for other cars. I didn't realize how bad a Tesla snob I was until today.
Of course, when I said that to my wife, she said "I already knew how bad a Tesla snob you are". :lol: :roll:

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:lol:

I get the same treatment, Driving home in the LEAF today she tentatively asked me how it was to drive her LEAF after 3+ years driving the Tesla Model 3. I assured her that any EV was at least an 8/10. But not too much later, I exclaimed that the LEAF is exciting in a way the Tesla never was, since I wasn't sure if the battery would suffice to get home ..

:twisted:

Ouch. Sorry to hear about your loss and but glad that you're ok. I've been too busy to monitor this thread.

jlv said:

Which is why I'm thinking of used EVs, specifically a LEAF. There don't seem to be many around.

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The used Leaf market as of late October 2021 was nutty. See my post at https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=611713#p611713. It really is too bad that the auction prices closed so high. A lot of overbidding went on.

I had no prob w/the ID.4's gear shifter. It's very similar to the BMW i3. I couldn't care less about the GOM nor nav system. I didn't like how the regen wasn't very strong (vs. L mode on my Bolt) and no way to make it stronger (e.g. paddle on the left side of the Bolt's steering wheel). If I drive my Bolt in L, I modulate the go pedal to slow down. If I need more braking, release the go pedal then pull on the paddle. If it's still not enough, then I use the brake pedal.

ID.4 is very quiet and the interior bits in terms of apparent quality (not surprisingly) blow the doors off the Bolt (which has a pretty lousy interior). ID.4's acceleration is kinda leisurely and concurs w/the "bench racing" Bolt vs. ID.4.

I would get the cheapest ID.4 and thus wouldn't get a trim w/the sunroof. It's a bit bigger than I'd prefer as usually, it's only me, myself and I. I don't carry about a lot of stuff.

Not surprisingly, ID.4 got a terrible reliability rating in Consumer Reports so there's no way in hell I'd buy one. It's a last resort backup car to lease if my Bolt buyback finally goes through. I put in a $100 refundable reservation awhile ago (after prodding elsewhere) and the ETA is March 2022. It's unlikely I'd lease it as the numbers I'm more than I'd want to pay to rent a car for 3 years.

The 3 years of free Electrify America DC FCing isn't of that much value to me. I'd be back to free L2 charging at work and hardly using EA. For folks who can't charge at home or have expensive electricity, then it's of value of them.

As I posted elsewhere, if Bolt buyback goes thru, I'm looking for a temp EV for the next maybe 1 to 3 years, so it could be leasing a Leaf. I'd rather not buy a new one due to CHAdeMO, no battery thermal management, depreciation and it possibly being hard to sell, esp. if it's an non-Plus. I think the magic # of 200+ miles of range really helps whereas if people see 150, they think it's not enough.

I now have 3 gen 2 Leaf takeover possibilities but I can't really act on them until the buyback is done or nearly done. Not even having a number from GM is annoying.

wwhitney said:

jlv said:

However, I have a Tesla wall connector, and getting any other model EV would require a replacement EVSE.

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My understanding is that the only difference between Tesla's EVSE and a standard one is mechanical. Electrically they are both J1772. So you could just change the cord to one with a standard J1772 plug instead of the Tesla plug, or get a mechanical adapter. Not sure if there are any high qualify options available for the latter, though.

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Yes. There are plenty of Tesla to J1772 adapters like https://qccharge.com/collections/jdapter-stub%E2%84%A2-tesla-station-adapter. Some people use them to charge on public Tesla wall connectors.

I should update: $30K in repair costs. Parts have been ordered (waiting on delivery).

It wasn't a total loss? what's the market value of a tesla?

Seems like it would be a total if repairs exceed 75% of market value.

Glad you walked away safely from this accident. I am surprised with the repair vs total decision as I was told once the airbags go off more often than not the insurance company moves to total the vehicle. Either way I hope you get your car back in shortest time possible. All the best

I'd been told to expect a total loss with all the airbags going off by several people. But I also a quote of my car being worth almost double this amount.

jlv said:

My son leased a Niro EV last night and told about it, so I wanted to see one - even if it's slow CCS speed would rule it out as a trip car. Only 1 dealership showed any in stock in MA, but when I called them they told me there were none to see. But they told me to do business with them ("order now, to reserve one to see"), as they only charge MSRP, unlike other Kia dealers who have a $3-4K markup. I just hung up. :lol:

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Niro EV's CCS is faster than Bolt's. I made my over 370 mile each way trip between Nor Cal and So Cal last month in my 80% capped Bolt. Was free going down there (posted about it in another thread) and almost free coming up. I also got a ton of free L2 juice in So Cal.

News Coulomb (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJqgqWqKmdkIuBZa7JK5KSw/videos?view=0&sort=dd&flow=grid) often makes long road trips in his '17 Bolt. He's past 144K miles on the original pack. He hasn't had it changed yet and since he's past 120K miles, he would get $0 if he asked GM for a buyback.

There is nothing like driving with the roof open with refreshing cool air flowing around.

It took almost 6 weeks from the date the parts were ordered.

Glad you got your car back finally. Hope it drives as it did before or even better with new parts. All the best!

Nice, a Tesla with a single use retractable sunroof.

Better than that one that had a single use roof.