TSLA corporate outlook

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TSLA stock is taking a beating - though so is Rivian and Lucid. I know I didn't hear what I wanted to hear, progress or a roadmap on the Cybertruck.

Note to Elon: Don't promise a roadmap on your most anticipated product and then fail to follow through.

But hey, Elon loves his Tesla Robot and Full Self driving.

Of course, if Elon had sold it as a SEX robot.... then investors might get excited.
 
Quite frankly I see this as TESLA starting to focus on what drives the growth. When the initial emotional knee jerk reactions subside I believe the street will see this as a more positive direction.

Cybertruck is fun and and exciting but will not sell in millions driving the growth of the company. Tesla made a choice early on not pumping out a run of the mill EV truck and took a pass on mass market in this segment. What we are seeing is simply an alignment in market positioning with the revenue priority.

Semi is awesome and will change the future of ground transportation but let's face it, the amount of battery capacity that will be needed to build each Semi can probably make 3-4 Tesla cars which as a result can bring more revenue growth. Charging infrastructure is also not yet ready for this large paradigm shift.

IMHO, Tesla is behaving more grown up as a company compared to before and now folks are having withdrawals from the past excitement. Let's focus on the positive... multiple GigaFactories, the GigaPress and the move to structural battery design. There is so much to be happy about if you're a shareholder. As for the current dip, buy more while you can! ;-)
 
It does make me wonder how different the model Ys coming out of Texas will be - would you want a model Y from Fremont or Texas?

Now they have also said the right half of the country will be supplied by Texas, the Left half by Fremont.
So you might not get a choice.

Or they might start using 4680's for model Y performance and the Long Range model Y comes from Fremont?



As an average consumer, I really don't care about their robot and factories. I want my cyber truck! :lol:

Actually, I do see the future potential of robots taking the place of manual labor - of course that brings a whole host of future unemployment issues for humanity. But let's gloss over that for the moment, so I see the future there. But robo taxi's? Maybe that's a huge financial boon in the future, but I as a consumer don't care. I want to own my own vehicle, and I think you are at least a generation out from American's being willing to stop buying their own vehicles. Even my 13 year old son want to own his own cars. Maybe it works well in population dense areas and cities, but in rural areas of the West, I'm not convinced. When I want to go hiking off some 4x4 road, camping for days, or exploring the desert in Nevada, I don't want to call for a robo taxii.

YMMV
 
danrjones said:
It does make me wonder how different the model Ys coming out of Texas will be - would you want a model Y from Fremont or Texas?
Maybe it works well in population dense areas and cities, but in rural areas of the West, I'm not convinced. When I want to go hiking off some 4x4 road, camping for days, or exploring the desert in Nevada, I don't want to call for a robo taxii.

Spot on! Fully agreed. Large cities with traffic and parking problems will be a driver for this trend. For the rest of us not much will change in vehicle ownership needs.
 
OldManCan said:
Quite frankly I see this as TESLA starting to focus on what drives the growth. When the initial emotional knee jerk reactions subside I believe the street will see this as a more positive direction.

Cybertruck is fun and and exciting but will not sell in millions driving the growth of the company. Tesla made a choice early on not pumping out a run of the mill EV truck and took a pass on mass market in this segment. What we are seeing is simply an alignment in market positioning with the revenue priority.

Semi is awesome and will change the future of ground transportation but let's face it, the amount of battery capacity that will be needed to build each Semi can probably make 3-4 Tesla cars which as a result can bring more revenue growth. Charging infrastructure is also not yet ready for this large paradigm shift.

IMHO, Tesla is behaving more grown up as a company compared to before and now folks are having withdrawals from the past excitement. Let's focus on the positive... multiple GigaFactories, the GigaPress and the move to structural battery design. There is so much to be happy about if you're a shareholder. As for the current dip, buy more while you can! ;-)

I agree to an extent on Tesla starting to grow up a bit and on growth. Once they get the factories online that should help them meet demand - but without them doubling down on improving build quality - i think competition is going to start eating their market share in a way that's more adverse than just losing market share due to more options.

Gigapress is a mixed bag to me - i think it would help in terms of quality but given the up to 6 month wait for repair parts for vehicles in collisions - I'd be concerned about what the effect on those sort of situations would be and cost to insure.

I think not focusing on getting Cybertruck out the door was a strategic blunder. The US truck and SUV market is the most profitable and they would have had a distinct advantage being first out the gate. Rivian has managed to get out the door first (and will have its own problems ramping up production) but Ford is going to pull ahead quicker since they have lots of experience in manufacturing. With the current Cybertruck timeline - GM and maybe even Stellantis are going to get their trucks out the door first - leaving people with options to cancel their reservations to get a truck from a competitor.

Semi becomes a lot less impressive when you take into consideration that Peterbilt, Freightliner, and others are already delivering trucks in that field that are fully electric. In practical terms - that means they are gathering real world data from fleets to refine and build next generation products when Tesla's initial product in the field is either vaporware or in limited trial phase depending on how you view it.

The lack of product roadmap does become a very real concern for long term outlook - No amount of OTA updates and on the fly changes is a substitute for new models over time. Tesla can certainly capture plenty of brand as a lifestyle people like Apple does - but come 2024, what makes the Model Y substantially more compelling than the Mach-E, EV6, I5, or Chrysler Airflow?

Tesla's biggest liability is it's FSD package. Tesla's lofty valuation hasn't been divorced from the constant claims that it's perpetually going to be available next year - including in the last earnings call. The potential fallout from the failure to deliver something above Level 2 automation is a significant risk factor, especially given Mercedes hit Level 3 first. The blow there with significant fall out has the possibility to finally do in Musk's somewhat dodgy credibility he still retains with his many broken promises.

I think if Tesla keeps moving towards focusing on the basics and doubles down on fixing build quality and meaningfully rolling out products they'll be alright - but i think they are at a critical junction where they will either cement themselves as a solid competitor in the field they were leading in or slowly become a minor player as more skilled manufacturers make progress.
 
Even Tesla with its vast engineering resources has limits and cannot do it all at the same time. For 2022 they choose to grow as fast as possible to meet demand. The trade-off is less R&D devoted to new model production.

Consider this: TWO (not one) gigafactories still have to come online and get ramped up to full capacity. That is between 1 - 2 million cars a year production. That is the equivalent of building out a BMW sized company. So what does Tesla do ? Well, they start scoping out locations for their NEXT couple of gigafactories.

The scope of Tesla activity is simply beyond what casual Tesla armchair critics/pundits comprehend.
 
LeftieBiker said:
I guess that mere mortals may not know the mind of ... Elon.
Right, since that would require actually either reading or listening to what he or his executive team say. Not at all what those stirring the piss pot are interested in.
 
The real rabbit that Elon is trying to pull out of his hat is the Teslabot. If he can get a GP robot to replace production workers then it's a new race. And remember that he' already solved the biggest problems (location awareness and vision). FSD has applications far beyond cars. Maybe a US Robotics spinoff? That would be classic Elon.

As for the factories, Texas and Germany will ramp up quickly since they are mostly copies of Shanghai. Look for announcements for new factory locations by the end of the year (probably England and India). Tesla has $15 Billion in the bank and a new factory costs about $4 Billion so two more factories isn't a strain. A battery production plant in Malaysia is another possibility just to keep up with demand and keep third party suppliers on their toes.

I suspect that Fremont will change Model Y to 4680 battery packs within a year. If you had a choice between the 2170 or 4680 packs, which would you choose? Either they discount 2170 pack Y's or face inventory problems if they prove hard to sell. There's a battery plant on Kato Road for a reason. Beside which, there's a cost advantage to the 4870 pack.
 
johnlocke said:
I suspect that Fremont will change Model Y to 4680 battery packs within a year. If you had a choice between the 2170 or 4680 packs, which would you choose? Either they discount 2170 pack Y's or face inventory problems if they prove hard to sell. There's a battery plant on Kato Road for a reason. Beside which, there's a cost advantage to the 4870 pack.

My Model Y order from November is tentatively scheduled for production in May-ish. I want the Austin product for a couple of reasons:

1. Casted ends so that noises do not crop up in later years
2. 4680 cells for (hopefully) faster charging and improved longevity (less heat generation.)

I'm still open to the possibility of canceling my order if a longer range Model Y is offered. It will end up costing quite a bit because of the extra pack capacity cost and having to give up the car price I locked in with my order, but I think it may be worth it for a 400 EPA mile range car.
 
SageBrush said:
johnlocke said:
I suspect that Fremont will change Model Y to 4680 battery packs within a year. If you had a choice between the 2170 or 4680 packs, which would you choose? Either they discount 2170 pack Y's or face inventory problems if they prove hard to sell. There's a battery plant on Kato Road for a reason. Beside which, there's a cost advantage to the 4870 pack.

My Model Y order from November is tentatively scheduled for production in May-ish. I want the Austin product for a couple of reasons:

1. Casted ends so that noises do not crop up in later years
2. 4680 cells for (hopefully) faster charging and improved longevity (less heat generation.)

I'm still open to the possibility of canceling my order if a longer range Model Y is offered. It will end up costing quite a bit because of the extra pack capacity cost and having to give up the car price I locked in with my order, but I think it may be worth it for a 400 EPA mile range car.

Do you think they will ever develop a line of 4680 LFP cells? what form factor are their LFP currently?
 
I think a 25% range improvement is too much to ask for. 10% seems more likely and would bring the Y up to 340-350 mi. The point of the 4680 pack is to lower costs. Increasing range is an afterthought.
 
danrjones said:
SageBrush said:
johnlocke said:
I suspect that Fremont will change Model Y to 4680 battery packs within a year. If you had a choice between the 2170 or 4680 packs, which would you choose? Either they discount 2170 pack Y's or face inventory problems if they prove hard to sell. There's a battery plant on Kato Road for a reason. Beside which, there's a cost advantage to the 4870 pack.

My Model Y order from November is tentatively scheduled for production in May-ish. I want the Austin product for a couple of reasons:

1. Casted ends so that noises do not crop up in later years
2. 4680 cells for (hopefully) faster charging and improved longevity (less heat generation.)

I'm still open to the possibility of canceling my order if a longer range Model Y is offered. It will end up costing quite a bit because of the extra pack capacity cost and having to give up the car price I locked in with my order, but I think it may be worth it for a 400 EPA mile range car.

Do you think they will ever develop a line of 4680 LFP cells? what form factor are their LFP currently?
Musk has already stated that the 4680 form factor isn't appropriate for LFP. I expect them to stick to LFP prismatic cells from third party manufacturers. Tesla is planning on using LFP for all energy storage products in the future. With a high enough volume, Tesla can buy LFP cheaper then they could build them themselves. plus there are patent issues to deal with.
 
OldManCan said:
It'll be interesting to see if any of the cost reduction will be reflected in the car price.
Not until supply exceeds demand. Until then, Tesla will just have to suffer with higher gross margins.
 
Our Y delivery window just shifted back again. Now it’s Feb 26 to Mar 26. Actually works better for us as the roads to the coast are pretty unpredictable this time of year. We already bought chains but hope to not use them. All season mud and snows it is. Ugh. Should be fine by then though.

Woohoo. 😊
 
Tesla is opening up more EU SuperChargers to other cars.

https://electrek.co/2022/01/31/tesla-expands-program-open-supercharger-network-electric-cars-other-automakers-norway-france/

EU requires a standard charging plug.
 
johnlocke said:
I think a 25% range improvement is too much to ask for. 10% seems more likely and would bring the Y up to 340-350 mi. The point of the 4680 pack is to lower costs. Increasing range is an afterthought.

Tesla said 16% increased range during battery day. Currently at EPA of 330, so perhaps 330*1.16 = 383 EPA combined range per 5 cycle test.

uc
 
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