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evnow
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Re: Ford Focus EV

Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:54 am

edatoakrun wrote:3691 lbs, as widely reported.

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car/11 ... auto_shows

One hefty compact car.

Plug that into your range calculations.
So, 330 lb more than the Leaf. Another effect of a conversion. No wonder they compared mpge with volt rather than Leaf.

Interesting question would be - is the 23 kwh the "total" or usable capacity ?

My guess is - we have heard all the +ve things about Focus already - we will slowly get to hear the -ve things.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

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EVDRIVER
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Re: Ford Focus EV

Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:59 am

GroundLoop wrote:Really? I'd gladly trade the L3 port on the Leaf for a 6.6kW charger.

There will be far more 6+kW L2 facilities than the occasional L3, and I intend to do more opportunistic charging than long-distance driving. Picking up charge twice as fast from these public chargers is far more valuable than the occasional quicker charge.

Agreed, in time people will see the value of this, if I could buy a larger charger upgrade at the time of order for $700 I would have, I bet VERY few use L3 as much as they think and some never, but I bet those people find that they are missing charging opportunities with the 3.3 charger.

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evnow
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Re: Ford Focus EV

Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:05 am

EVDRIVER wrote:Agreed, in time people will see the value of this, if I could buy a larger charger upgrade at the time of order for $700 I would have, I bet VERY few use L3 as much as they think and some never, but I bet those people find that they are missing charging opportunities with the 3.3 charger.
Depends on the region, I think. People in EV Project places with a lot of L3s will get to use them - not the others. Also, people in larger metros (LA etc) will use more of L2 opportunity charging - since they would be doing 60 to 70 miles per trip.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
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EVDRIVER
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Re: Ford Focus EV

Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:05 am

evnow wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:3691 lbs, as widely reported.

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car/11 ... auto_shows

One hefty compact car.

Plug that into your range calculations.
So, 330 lb more than the Leaf. Another effect of a conversion. No wonder they compared mpge with volt rather than Leaf.

Interesting question would be - is the 23 kwh the "total" or usable capacity ?

My guess is - we have heard all the +ve things about Focus already - we will slowly get to hear the -ve things.

Or pack water cooling, or a larger overall pack, etc. Regardless it is far to heavy for an EV in it's class and if that number is true I would take it off my list no matter how great it is otherwise, it's WAY too heavy.

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Azrich
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Re: Ford Focus EV

Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:45 pm

sjfotos wrote:
Here is the list, including a few Northern type cities...perhaps as a result of the 'liquid' battery management system, which I have not yet seen details on:


Atlanta, Ga.
Austin, Texas
Houston, Texas
Boston, Ma.
Chicago, Ill.
Denver, Colo.
Detroit, Mich.
Los Angeles, Calif.
New York, N.Y.
Orlando, Fla.
Phoenix, Ariz.
Tucson, Ariz.
Portland, Ore.
Raleigh-Durham, N.C.
Richmond, Va.
San Francisco, Calif.
San Diego, Calif.
Seattle, Wash.
Washington, D.C.
Tucson is on the list. Hmmmm! Hurry up, Nissan. Start making some deliveries our way. No deliveries to our city. Pending - pending - pending. Let us know something soon. There is Ford dealership about a mile from my house.
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rsmith1
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Re: Ford Focus EV

Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:55 pm

It's all going to come down to price now. Since Nissan pushed tier 2 states back, the Focus EV will be in my city around the same time. It's very tempting, especially with the 6.6 charger and battery heating/cooling.
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EVDRIVER
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Re: Ford Focus EV

Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:08 pm

rsmith1 wrote:It's all going to come down to price now. Since Nissan pushed tier 2 states back, the Focus EV will be in my city around the same time. It's very tempting, especially with the 6.6 charger and battery heating/cooling.

What about the extra 300 plus pounds you get, that's going to cost quite a bit every time you drive:)

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TimeHorse
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Re: Ford Focus EV

Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:50 pm

We were whining about the LEAF weight until practically the first delivery. Now all that's quiet and we want to pick on Ford for another 2-3 passenger equivalent?

Well, the way I see it is this: weight is the linear enemy of both speed and hills and the quadratic enemy of acceleration, but in no way effects our worst enemy, the dreaded cubic drag. But what really matters is range. Now Nissan said they could do 100 mi under EPA LA04 (whatever it is called now) and in the end, they beat it in some road tests. But the EPA shot back with a 20% penalty for adverse weather with a final answer of 73 mi.

Now Ford is saying they can get 100 mi on a 4% smaller battery and a 300 lb-mass heavier car. One way this could be the case is if the new Focus is massively better engineered for aerodynamics than the LEAF and this would be in a car maker's interest regardless of EV or ICEV as both pay the for the cost of drag and eking out a fraction of a coefficient of drag can pay big dividends, especially at speed. There are of course other ways Ford may have an improved design, specifically with a better inverter or more efficient electric motor, though I don't know how this could be done personally; Damn it, Jim, IANAEE.

My point is simply this: wait for the EPA LA04 numbers, and the official EPA number before you judge the weight. In fact, a heavier car that could get the same mileage as the LEAF has one advantage in that additional passengers or cargo have less of a relative effect because they would make up a smaller percentage of the weight of the car.

But[/b], all that said, the real question will come from mounting hills, because that's one aspect of automotive efficiency that's not well represented in the EPA tests and so although the Rolling Resistance and Acceleration will take equal hits for weight and compensated for in design, it's an uphill battle to go uphill.
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evnow
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Re: Ford Focus EV

Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:56 pm

A 10% weight increase will roughly decrease efficiency by 5% (don't have link).

BTW, I doubt Focus will have a better CD than Leaf. Also looking at their statement of efficiency (mpge rating) being better than Volt but only "comparable" to competition - I guess Focus will be somewhere between Volt's 93 and Leaf's 99 (IIRC).

ps : Timehorse, do you have links to how EPA calculates EV range ? I know they are trying to change stuff - not sure what exact method they used.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

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DaveEV
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Re: Ford Focus EV

Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:16 pm

evnow wrote:A 10% weight increase will roughly decrease efficiency by 5% (don't have link).
Impossible to make generalizations like that without knowing the drive cycle...

In the city weight can make a big difference. On the highway, it can be nearly negligible.

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