pkulak
Posts: 758
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:08 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Sep 2013
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Help me choose! Leaf vs Cmax Energi vs Volt and others..

Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:52 am

I usually steer people to the Volt, but if you only go 40 miles per day max _and_ you've got a little one coming, I'm going to say Leaf. People say the Volt has a large trunk, and maybe it does, but it's still 10 cu ft vs 24 for the Leaf. You can lay a Bob stroller in the bottom of the Leaf trunk (the newer models without the charger crammed back there) and still have plenty of room on top of it for bags, toys, etc. Plus, you have the option of putting the car seat in the middle, which a lot of people prefer. And if you still have another car for road trips, you're golden.

tangfj
Posts: 16
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Delivery Date: 21 Jun 2014
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Help me choose! Leaf vs Cmax Energi vs Volt and others..

Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:49 pm

Wow! Thanks a lot guys! It seems that the only consensus I am seeing is that the i3 probably is not a good fit. I think my next step will be to test drive each of the cars and see where to go from there.

One other question... Does anyone know when the next years models are generally announced? Late summer or early fall? I'm wondering if I should wait it out a bit for the MY15 cars to see if there are any appreciable differences?
2014 Gun Metallic Gray SL w/ Premium Package

bbrowncods
Posts: 187
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:53 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Jun 2014
Leaf Number: 339458
Location: Norfolk VA

Re: Help me choose! Leaf vs Cmax Energi vs Volt and others..

Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:44 pm

Well for me the C-Max is pretty much not available here in VA.

For the Volt - Read the News on GM/Chevy recalls lately? I have a friend that just had his recall on the ignition switch done and they made him sign a waiver that they would not be liable if he had anything attached to his ignition key. And this was after they fixed it! I know this does not apply to the Volt, but these recalls are for 10 year old defects. I'll pass.

Leaf - Nation wide dealer support, good history (arguably there are some battery issues), major manufacturer, American made, great sales numbers (economy of scale), great incentives right now.

i3 - $$$$
2014 Cayenne Red Leaf SL purchased 6/9/2014 (dealer received it on 6/7/2014), manufacture date 4/2014.
7/4/14 -629 miles, Temp 83, SOC 97.5, 59.81 Ahr, SOH 91%, Hx 91.44, 20.2 Kwh, Avg 4.127, High 4.136, Low 4.122, GIDS 267/92.5%.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Help me choose! Leaf vs Cmax Energi vs Volt and others..

Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:23 pm

tangfj wrote:Wow! Thanks a lot guys! It seems that the only consensus I am seeing is that the i3 probably is not a good fit. I think my next step will be to test drive each of the cars and see where to go from there.

One other question... Does anyone know when the next years models are generally announced? Late summer or early fall? I'm wondering if I should wait it out a bit for the MY15 cars to see if there are any appreciable differences?
Nissan seems to be all over the map on Leaf MYs. Rumor has it the '15 will be out this Summer.

It seems to me that there is a consensus - if what you wrote about your needs and desires is correct. The Leaf is roomier than all but the Ford regular hybrid, and the Volt has a range that - and this is rare - works out to be *too high* for it to be worth buying for your needs. You'd almost never need the ICE (gas engine) but would still have to lug it around and maintain it. Can anyone see a reason for this guy *not* to at least lease a Leaf...?
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 9725
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Help me choose! Leaf vs Cmax Energi vs Volt and others..

Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:30 pm

adric22 wrote:
cwerdna wrote: Since you wanted something reliable, you may as well rule out the C-Max Energi. It got a dubious honor at http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news ... /index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
I have heard that most of the complaints about the C-Max Energi were not so much reliability issues with the drive-train, rather "electrical issues" with accessories, and especially a lot of complaints about the "MyFordTouch" infotainment system. I read a long PDF on the issue a few months back and I didn't see much that would be concern for being left stranded on the side of the road or anything like that. Most of it was just annoyances.
Looking at my CR online subscription, their new car prediction for the C-Max energi is "Much worse than average" and "Based on the latest survey, we expect reliability of new models will be 226% below average".

Trouble spots include electrical system (horrible rating, solid black dot, which is the worst possible out of 5), climate system (2nd worst possible rating), and body hardware (also solid black dot). More about their definitions and reliability survey at http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012 ... /index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

'19 Bolt Premier
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'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 9725
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
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Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Help me choose! Leaf vs Cmax Energi vs Volt and others..

Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:49 pm

bbrowncods wrote: For the Volt - Read the News on GM/Chevy recalls lately? I have a friend that just had his recall on the ignition switch done and they made him sign a waiver that they would not be liable if he had anything attached to his ignition key. And this was after they fixed it! I know this does not apply to the Volt, but these recalls are for 10 year old defects. I'll pass.
That's crazy re: that waiver AFTER the fix.

GM's been taking an intermittent pounding in the media lately, similar to but maybe not quite as bad as Toyota during the SUA PR disaster (where the bad press and coverage seemed relentless). As I posted elsewhere:
GM CEO axes 15 over switches, says 'no conspiracy':
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/car ... e/9985709/

GM's Mary Barra Fires 15, Says More Recalls Are Coming:
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/20 ... are-coming
General Motors (GM) has fired 15 employees over its protracted recall disaster and is preparing another wave of recalls, Chief Executive Mary Barra told GM employees at GM’s technical center in Detroit this morning.

At the same time, Barra ruled out any high-level conspiracy in the 2.6 million-vehicle debacle...
I wouldn't be surprised if the initial set of recalls coming rapid fire was Mary Barra ordering fast tracking of safety complaint investigations along w/erring on the side of caution to recall in order to try to get as much bad news out there at once.

Get it all out of the way as quickly as possible so that it passes instead of having protracted slow motion train wreck spread out over a long period.

GM is now at recall #34 so far this year: http://www.cnbc.com/id/101739417" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

One could use some reverse logic. GM is probably under very great scrutiny by NHTSA and internally, probably wanting to err on the side of caution and issuing recalls that they (and other automakers) might not've considered recall class/safety issues.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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jlv
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Re: Help me choose! Leaf vs Cmax Energi vs Volt and others..

Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:10 am

I choose the Leaf over the ______ because
  • 99% of the trips I make are under 50mi/day
    • my daily commute is 20mi round trip
    • we have L2 charges at work
      • I only charge at work
      • As I used to spend $150/mo on gas, it's like getting $150/mo back
      • (don't tell the IRS)
    • 2-3 days per year I would have taken my old car on a trip out of state (1% of my trips).
      • We have another car available to make those trips when needed.
      • As others have pointed out, you could always rent one.
    • if I needed to regularly do >80mi/day, I would have gotten the Volt.
  • of it's simplicity of design (pure electric)
    • Not just no more gas, but also...
      • No more oil changes.
      • No exhaust system.
    • Hybrids have an ICE and a second transmission.
      • all the possible problems in a gas vehicle and an electric vehicle
    • The Volt has an ICE as a generator (but one transmission, which makes it a win over Hybrids IMHO).
      • GM has a spotty reputation in my family, and this weighed against the Volt.
      • It needs oil changes, but once as little as every 18mo.
      • It uses gas, but you can keep the tank 1/4 full if you mostly never use it.
    • the Model S shares this simplicity
      • IMHO, it is the perfect car
      • it costs more than I'd like to spend
      • if you are someone who would spend >$60K on a car, it's a no-brainer to spend a little more and get the Model S.
LEAF '13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17, sold 11/18) 34K mi, AHr 58, SOH 87%
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85K 100% BEV miles since '14
ICE free since '18

dgalvan
Posts: 82
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Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2014
Location: Woodland Hills, CA (Los Angeles)

Re: Help me choose! Leaf vs Cmax Energi vs Volt and others..

Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:01 pm

jlv wrote:I choose the Leaf over the ______ because
  • 99% of the trips I make are under 50mi/day
    • my daily commute is 20mi round trip
    • we have L2 charges at work
      • I only charge at work
      • As I used to spend $150/mo on gas, it's like getting $150/mo back
      • (don't tell the IRS)
    • 2-3 days per year I would have taken my old car on a trip out of state (1% of my trips).
      • We have another car available to make those trips when needed.
      • As others have pointed out, you could always rent one.
    • if I needed to regularly do >80mi/day, I would have gotten the Volt.
  • of it's simplicity of design (pure electric)
    • Not just no more gas, but also...
      • [*]No more oil changes.
      • No exhaust system.
    • Hybrids have an ICE and a second transmission.
      • all the possible problems in a gas vehicle and an electric vehicle
    • The Volt has an ICE as a generator (but one transmission, which makes it a win over Hybrids IMHO).
      • GM has a spotty reputation in my family, and this weighed against the Volt.
      • It needs oil changes, but once as little as every 18mo.
      • It uses gas, but you can keep the tank 1/4 full if you mostly never use it.
    • the Model S shares this simplicity
      • IMHO, it is the perfect car
      • it costs more than I'd like to spend
      • if you are someone who would spend >$60K on a car, it's a no-brainer to spend a little more and get the Model S.
Great summary.
Pretty much ditto for me, with the most important points hilighted.

(exhaust system: The reason I needed to replace my previous car, a 2002 suzuki aerio, was because it's catalytic converter died. . . for the second time in 4 years.)
2014 Leaf S with Charger Package (Blue Ocean)
Purchased 4/25/2014, Totaled (hit from behind on freeway) 9/20/2016

2016 Leaf SV (Glacier White)
Purchased 9/30/2016

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14144
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Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Help me choose! Leaf vs Cmax Energi vs Volt and others..

Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:23 pm

its a LEAF forum so you really want my answer? with child you need a back seat. in the Cmax you cannot get both backseat and storage. volt runs on gas so not an option for me. your super short commutes means you want to reduce your warmup issues.

will this be your only car? I have two. the LEAF and a gasser that I force myself to drive at least once every 2-3 weeks. I keep it around because its cheap and I do occasionally need to drive far enough where its a beneficial option. and its about as reliable as a 15 year old car with 184,000 miles can be.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IBELEAF
Posts: 1235
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Delivery Date: 06 Apr 2011
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Help me choose! Leaf vs Cmax Energi vs Volt and others..

Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:56 pm

Don't get none of the listed options. This is coming from someone who owned Volt and Leaf who had a baby then a second one and eventually moved closer to work. Ended up getting a family mover... Suv. I still prefer small efficient cars but when you have two small kids even for day trips those cars are just inconvenient.
Currently: '12 Volt (12k) since 7/2012
Previously: '11 Leaf SL (w/ 12k miles & 16 month ownership)

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