GetOffYourGas
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Re: Tesla Model C

Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:45 am

mkjayakumar wrote:Tesla SuperChargers can charge at a Max rate of 90kW. It doesn't mean they have to or they do charge at that rate. The charge rate is negotiated between the car's BMS and the EVSE, and the actual charge rate will be a lower of the two numbers between these two devices. In fact as the SoC or the battery temp increases, the charge rate decreases progressively and substantially because the car's BMS negotiates a lower charge rate as the battery fills up. So what starts up at 90 kW rate when the battery is near zero will reduce to a trickle approaching 80% and above.

So one could connect a 40 kW battery to a 90kW supercharger and the car's BMS will negotiate a 30 kW charge rate, which will be less than 1C.

This might be a reason why Tesla decided not to have a supercharger access to 40kWh battery, because an hour of charge will give substantially less number of miles in a 40kWh than an 85 kWh, making supercharging much less useful in long distance driving for EVs with smaller packs. You might get 100 miles in a 40kWh Tesla on an hour of supercharging session, which is not enough to cover the distance to the next supercharger to continue your journey.
I agree completely. I think the average consumer isn't going to care about how many kW are being transferred into their car. They just care about adding enough juice to comfortably get to their next destination. So that means that either the 40kWh battery will have to be charged at a stressful 2.25C rate, or the owner is going to be frustrated that they can't get the same benefit out of the supercharger network as the 60kWh/85kWh owners can.
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evnow
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Re: Tesla Model C

Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:39 am

GetOffYourGas wrote:I agree completely. I think the average consumer isn't going to care about how many kW are being transferred into their car. They just care about adding enough juice to comfortably get to their next destination. So that means that either the 40kWh battery will have to be charged at a stressful 2.25C rate, or the owner is going to be frustrated that they can't get the same benefit out of the supercharger network as the 60kWh/85kWh owners can.
Makes no sense. "Average Consumer" isn't buying an EV - let alone a Model S. Anyone who buys 40 kWh model should know what the limitations are (for eg. now they can't use the super charger !).
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TEG
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Re: Tesla Model C

Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:47 am

Related thread over at TeslaMotorsClub:

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthre ... sign-Study" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GetOffYourGas
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Re: Tesla Model C

Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:52 am

evnow wrote:
GetOffYourGas wrote:I agree completely. I think the average consumer isn't going to care about how many kW are being transferred into their car. They just care about adding enough juice to comfortably get to their next destination. So that means that either the 40kWh battery will have to be charged at a stressful 2.25C rate, or the owner is going to be frustrated that they can't get the same benefit out of the supercharger network as the 60kWh/85kWh owners can.
Makes no sense. "Average Consumer" isn't buying an EV - let alone a Model S. Anyone who buys 40 kWh model should know what the limitations are (for eg. now they can't use the super charger !).
My goodness, you're picky! You remind me of me!

I meant the average EV consumer. And not today's drivers, but those buying in two years from now.
~Brian

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evnow
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Re: Tesla Model C

Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:21 am

GetOffYourGas wrote:I meant the average EV consumer. And not today's drivers, but those buying in two years from now.
Irrespective of who the consumer is - people realize that when you buy a smaller range car, it will go shorter distance. That is absolutely no reason to restrict supercharging.
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mkjayakumar
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Re: Tesla Model C

Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:46 pm

Supercharging feature on smaller batteries only leads to high expectations and inevitable frustration and disappointment, on two aspects:

one, it really does not give them the ability for road travel.
two, it will accelerate battery degradation.
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evnow
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Re: Tesla Model C

Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:15 pm

mkjayakumar wrote:Supercharging feature on smaller batteries only leads to high expectations and inevitable frustration and disappointment, on two aspects:

one, it really does not give them the ability for road travel.
two, it will accelerate battery degradation.
One, it does give the ability to do some one day road trips. Basically QC can double your range.
Two, as we discussed above, if the charging rate is kept the same (and # of QCs), 40 lWh battery won't degrade any faster.

BTW, what I'd have liked Tesla to do is to give a CHaDEMO adapter, more than the supercharger capability.
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Boomer23
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Re: Tesla Model C

Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:20 pm

Boomer23 wrote:Just so we're on the same page, are we assuming that this is the same project that has been internally designated as "Bluestar" within Tesla corporate?
To answer my own question, "No". From reading the Tesla forum, the Bluestar car, more commonly called "Gen III" is probably a different project from this "Model C" design exercise.
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TEG
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Re: Tesla Model C

Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:14 pm

Tesla's "Bluestar" project could be called "Model 3". They are targeting BMW 3 series, perhaps a small 4 door sedan.

The C concept looks a bit smaller than what I expect them to do for "Gen III".

We may see a Model S based pickup and/or mini-van from Tesla (as well as Model X) before Bluestar gets done.

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JeremyW
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Re: Tesla Model C

Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:56 pm

TEG wrote:We may see a Model S based pickup and/or mini-van from Tesla (as well as Model X) before Bluestar gets done.
They could call it the Model T! :lol: :D
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