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OrientExpress
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:11 am

On the topic of the "Monroney" or window Sticker, none of the cars produced so far actually have them because Tesla has yet to get the certified EPA ratings on the car. Until that happens, there will not be a sticker. That raises an interesting issue. Technically a car cannot be offered for sale until it has all of its certifications which go onto the window. I would imagine that there is some sort of legal wrangling going on by delivering these first cars to employees they can be deemed prototypes and exempt. Later these cars would be "modified" so that they could be deemed saleable product.
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edatoakrun
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:25 am

See my post from p 89 quoting a report explaining the situation, which AFAIK is correct:
OrientExpress wrote:On the topic of the "Monroney" or window Sticker, none of the cars produced so far actually have them because Tesla has yet to get the certified EPA ratings on the car. Until that happens, there will not be a sticker. That raises an interesting issue. Technically a car cannot be offered for sale until it has all of its certifications which go onto the window. I would imagine that there is some sort of legal wrangling going on by delivering these first cars to employees they can be deemed prototypes and exempt. Later these cars would be "modified" so that they could be deemed saleable product.
edatoakrun wrote: Wonder if TSLA will reveal data from the “conditional fuel economy label” before or by tomorrow night?

And if so, will it be only for the optional-large-battery RWD versions it has said will be "delivered" tomorrow night, or show data for the entire model 3 range?
Tesla's Official Model 3 EPA Efficiency Data Will Be One Month Late

Tesla will launch its Model 3 on Friday, July 28th without official EPA energy efficiency data.


Like many aspects of Telsa's vehicle launches, the energy efficiency data is an afterthought to be handled when time permits, rather before the cars start to be sold to private owners.

No Official Window Sticker For Model 3

In the U.S., every car sold must have a Monroney sticker affixed to its side window by law.
The is sticker has evolved over the years, but now contains primarily fuel economy information (in the largest font on the sticker), energy (or fuel) costs in the second largest font size, crash test data from NHTSA, manufacturing location and parts origin by percentage, and, of course, the individual vehicle's MSRP and standard and optional content in the smallest font. Tesla will be providing vehicles to consumers without official data...

We asked the folks at http://www.fueleconomy.gov if the information was available and discovered it was not. Our inquiry was timely. Just yesterday, July 26th, 2017, http://www.fueleconomy.gov received an e-mail from the EPA informing the group that the data would be a month late and that official sales of the Model 3 would start on July 28th (not what you may have otherwise heard reported). Instead of an official Monroney sticker, the EPA will allow Tesla to ship a limited number of vehicles (possibly less than 100 in total) with “conditional fuel economy label”. http://WWW.fueleconomy.gov explained to us that, "This provision in EPA regulations allows manufacturers to introduce a model based on manufacturer’s test data, while the test vehicle is being confirmatory tested at EPA." The group says that EPA won't be sending any information to http://www.fueleconomy.gov until the data is finalized, which is estimated to take another month...
https://www.torquenews.com/1083/teslas- ... month-late...
lpickup wrote: What do you think is still missing? An official MPGe rating? City/highway breakdown? Annual fuel costs?...
It is nothing to do with what I "think", as a matter of fact, TSLA has refused to disclose that information, and the rest of the requirements listed in the article above, that by law must be disclosed in order to sell its vehicles.

I doubt that could have happened by accident, or for any other reason other than by corporate directive.

I wonder if TSLA even actually sold these thirty Model 3s, or any of the earlier cars reportedly given to insiders?

It has also been reported that TSLA has prohibited "resale" of the thirty event cars.

How can it do that if the people who drove them away actually own them?
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dgpcolorado
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:46 am

lpickup wrote:...Now here's where we get back on topic to Tesla. So Tesla has chargers that do support 100kW+ charging today. There is an actual network of them. They are spaced out at intentionally even intervals. They are sited near amenities. Even then, from my area, going in the direction I take annually, it is 278 miles to the first Supercharger (the road I take, US-29 through VA, is not an interstate (although portions are limited access with speed limits of 65-70) so likely not a target for future SCs). There is one planned for Charlottesville, VA at 200 miles away, but this takes me over 20 minutes out of my way. The closest CHAdeMO charger on this route is 230 miles away, and it is a SINGLE charger. So the going in that direction is tight, for sure, for either car. But the long range Model 3 could, in theory, make it. The hypothetical 200 mile LEAF could not. Taking an alternate route north towards I-95 (which I like to avoid), the first Supercharger is only 80 miles away and this gets me to interstates which will serve well. The closest CHAdeMO in that direction, however, is again a SINGLE charger at a hotel 135 miles away. Okay, at least doable. Heading south to Savannah, Supercharger is 108 miles away. For CHAdeMO I would have to go out of my way to get to a Nissan dealer in Fayetteville (about 90 miles), but then where? There is not a single other fast charger until Savannah (261 miles). So SOL taking a 200 mile LEAF in that direction. Going west there are actually several options, but the pinch point is probably a single charger at a Nissan dealer about 160 miles away. You would have to stop there to get a charge to make it the next leg. But to make it there comfortably you would probably also have to stop at another Nissan dealer as well. Again with Tesla, this is all well spaced-out. You could actually make it to the Asheville Supercharger (242 miles), but there will be 2 other opportunities before that as well.
Your analysis reminds me that I live in "Supercharger Heaven", with six Supercharger Stations within Tesla range of my house:

Grand Junction CO — 99 miles
Farmington NM — 135 miles
Moab UT — 143 miles
Blanding UT — 159 miles
Glenwood Springs CO — 174 miles
Green River UT — 195 miles

And a seventh is planned:

Poncha Springs CO — ~151 miles


I can head out in pretty much any direction I want and be on the Supercharger network. Makes it really easy, whether I am heading to Portland OR, Denver/Boulder, Zion National Park, Arches/Canyonlands National Parks, or San Diego, all trips I've made, some of them numerous times. The "problem" with driving a Tesla is that it is so much fun that one tends to accumulate much more mileage than originally expected.
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Graffi
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:04 am

+1 to the above. In less than two months we already had 10,000 miles on our Tesla, almost all of it on Superchargers. In three more weeks we have another 2,000 mile trip to the Pacific North West taking us all the way to Rock Springs, WY (the supercharger there is brand new) before heading home again. I would like it to be longer, but my wife can not take off more time from work. Darn that work. But I guess we need to pay for the Tesla somehow.

I do love driving our Tesla.
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scottf200
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:22 am

dgpcolorado wrote:
lpickup wrote:...Now here's where we get back on topic to Tesla. So Tesla has chargers that do support 100kW+ charging today. There is an actual network of them. They are spaced out at intentionally even intervals. They are sited near amenities.
Spacing of the multi-pedestal charging sites are often 125 miles apart and regularly less now. Below shows 125 mile radius. In many cases the base 220 mile Model 3 could travel (excluding odd weather, headwind, elevation, etc issues). Others obviously do in S/X 60/75s.

Tesla findus map for 2017 shows many even added *between* existing ones! Triple amount for 2018 will certainly add more density.

Via: https://supercharge.info/
Image
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edatoakrun
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:05 pm

It seems that even Teslebrities weren't allowed to look at the trunk Friday...

Bjørn Nyland's ride:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiv9esQ3Glw


A few forbidden images from Model 3 online configurator posted below:
First look at the Tesla Model 3 online configurator

...As you can see, the price adds up quickly when going fully equipped.

Right now, it looks like the online design studio is only available to employees...
https://electrek.co/2017/07/29/tesla-mo ... gurator-2/
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webeleafowners
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:32 pm

Graffi wrote:
webeleafowners wrote:
Graffi wrote:
If it is for Local Driving only, then get the Leaf. If you wish to use it for long cross-country vacation driving then get the Tesla. Even the 200+ mile Leaf can not be practical for trips greater than 300 miles. jmho
Just curious. Why wouldn't a 200 mile leaf be practical for trips of 300 or greater miles?

It is not the miles of range that make an EV practical for long distance trips, it is the ability to quickly "refuel", or in our case, recharge. Only Tesla is building a network of Superchargers to allow us to do that.

On our trips we drove for 1 to 1.5 hours, then stop at a supercharger to plug in, find a restroom, walk around a few minutes to get blood flowing to legs and feet, then unplug and be on our way in 10 to 20 minutes. If we do something else at the stop then we got more electricity. Some may ask, why drive an hour and wait 10 minutes? Well, when we drove ICE on our trips we did the same, drive then rest. Using our Tesla does not add more time to our total driving time, it us just more comfortable.

No other EV manufacturing company is doing anything about being able to recharge quickly. NO ONE. If you, or anyone, were to get anything other than a TESLA you could use it for longer drives, but if you have to recharge, then you find an L-2 EVSE that will recharge at a speed of about 16 to 20 miles each hour. This means that you drive for 3 hours, then recharge for 9 hours, drive for 3 hours, then recharge for 9 hours, rinse and repeat, etc. etc. etc. If you were lucky enough to find a DCFC and have that ability on your EV then you can drive for 3 hours, recharge for 1.5 hours, rinse and repeat, etc. etc. etc.

And do not get me started on paying for that electricity. All of the public charging stations available (except for the free ones that are becoming more and more rare) sell you the electricity, plus costs, plus profit. The cheaper one will charge you 2 or 3 times the cost of charging at home, most of the DCFC are even more. I believe you will find that the cost per mile for public DCFC electricity will be greater than gas in and ICE. With the TESLA superchargers it could be free, or if you have to pay, I read somewhere that Elon stated it would be equivalent to the cost of electricity at home (or much cheaper than driving on GAS). Even then, the cost of your time is much more expensive at the slower recharging stations.

No one has the network to allow you to drive for an hour, then charge for 10 minutes, except TESLA. This is the one thing that sets them apart from the field.
Sounds reasonable. I think one of the reasons I can't agree with everything "cien por cien" :) is that we are probably blessed with our location having good DCFC charging facilities on the routes we take. I think a lot has to do with where you are but yes I see what you are saying...we are probably just spoiled. :) Also, I wonder (and don't really know) if the 30 KWH leafs charge faster on DCFC. We do a route about 155 kilometers distance that we can easily do in one shot but along the way there is a little pit stop with a single combo Chademo/CCS charger. We usually pop in and grab a coffee and a pepperoni and are there for about 8 to 10 minutes. In that time the car goes from 45 to 80 ish percent REALLY FAST. Approximation here but it fills up fast. If we get talking to somebody even for a few minutes we are north of 90 percent and we are not there long. So, do the 30KWH leafs charge quicker. Just curious.
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lpickup
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:51 pm

webeleafowners wrote:So, do the 30KWH leafs charge quicker. Just curious.
Definitely. Well any larger battery vehicle will tend to charge faster than a smaller battery due to the fact that it will take longer to get to the switchover to constant voltage mode and begin the taper process.

But the 30kWh LEAF (mine anyway) goes all the way to 90% without tapering, whereas my 24kWh would start tapering at about 60% (although admittedly part of that is simply due to the age/degradation of that battery). So whereas the peak charging rate wouldn't differ, if you let the battery get up past the taper point of the smaller battery, you will get more power delivered to the larger battery vehicle.
...Lance

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webeleafowners
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:10 pm

Thanks Lance. I don't think I have ever been at a DCFC for more than twenty minutes. Maybe once or twice when there was a lineup at Starbucks but it just seems to go from 20 to 90 really fast on a DCFC. We don't even shy away from (the very occasional) 400 ish kilometre trip and I doubt it takes us much longer than our old diesel....but that's kind of how we travel anyway.
2020 Model 3 Tesla. AWD with FSD. Deep metallic blue. Our daily driver.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KWh Culis Red. Sold. Was my daily driver. Loved that car.
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

GRA
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Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:37 pm

Question for dgpcolorado. One of the points mentioned in one of the articles, I think the Motor Trend one, was that the rear seats in the Model 3 do fold 60/40, as well as the trunk opening being enlarged, and that a bike would fit in the back (and so presumably a person could also lie down). While I still prefer a hatchback/wagon/CUV body design, folding rear seats and the larger trunk opening do provide a lot more versatility and utility, and I was wondering if that had changed your attitude (previously negative IIRR) towards the Model 3? I'd prefer a Model Y, but it would be absolutely off my list if it has Falcon Wing Doors, if no one can get Elon to change his mind on that.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

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