Chevrolet Bolt

[DaveinOlyWA]

That’s a pretty sweet price with fed discount included.

Yeah, but Federal tax credit is only $3750 on GM EVs/PHEVs right now.

For those in CA w/a low enough income, they can get another $2500 (https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/eligible-vehicles https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/inco ... income-cap). And, some utilities have rebates. PG&E provides a one-time $800: https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/s ... icles.page.

Cheapest Bolt (LT w/no options) is being openly advertised for $25,240 (MSRP $37,495): https://www.chevroletoffremont.com/Vehi ... rice%7Casc.

that does bring it down to nearly the exact same price the LEAF is going for though. More range but less amenities. I guess its all about what you are looking for.

[cwerdna]

^^^
By price of Leaf, are you talking about 40 kWh Leaf or 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Depending on the form of the incentives on the Bolt (not talking about Federal tax credit), a few $K off purchase price also can save a bit on sales tax vs. a higher sale price but bigger tax credit ($7500 vs. $3750).

(See https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/what ... u-pay.html under "are incentives taxed?")

Yeah, Bolt definitely is missing some features like adaptive cruise control, anything like ProPilot Assist, hybrid heat pump heater, battery temp display, power seat and a nav system (if you want nav, you gotta use Android Auto or CarPlay or you can pay for Constar for directions).

But, there's the the % charge limiter and battery thermal management. It looks like multiple DC FCs a day at 55 kW (until it starts tapering at around 52%) are no problem.

[DaveinOlyWA]

LEAF S + with climate. This levels the playing field a bit on the tech side and even with Bolt discounts, the price as well if you qualify for full tax credit.

Now that NCTC is no more, this also levels the cost as well. I have not actually experienced it but there is supposed to be an improvement in seats on the plus? Two people who went from a 2015 and 2014 claim the seats are better.

Despite EA's expansion, Chademo is still the runaway leader especially for the budget conscious in a few select areas where Webasto dominates.

At this point; if I were in the market right now, I would likely go with the best deal financially but all things being equal, I would still pick the LEAF. I know that statement seems contradictory but since I don't qualify for the full tax credit, I would likely have to lease then purchase and its all about how the incentives work.

[WetEV]

Two people who went from a 2015 and 2014 claim the seats are better.

From a test drive and some test sitting, the seats are better. Went from unacceptable to sort of OK.

Your experience will differ.

The Bolt is the most compelling car on price/range, and has been in production for a while with reasonably good results. If you are looking to buy, I'd suggest at least checking out the Bolt.

[LeftieBiker]

LEAF S + with climate. This levels the playing field a bit on the tech side and even with Bolt discounts, the price as well if you qualify for full tax credit.

Are you saying that the S plus has a heat pump, that you would like to see that, or...?

[DaveinOlyWA]

LEAF S + with climate. This levels the playing field a bit on the tech side and even with Bolt discounts, the price as well if you qualify for full tax credit.

Are you saying that the S plus has a heat pump, that you would like to see that, or...?

No. Only what I would buy. Heat pump is nice but not as valuable to me as it would be to others. I prefer to simply drive differently if I had to choose. I know its the norm to drive in rainy weather the exact same way as dry Summer days but I opted out on that one years ago.

[DaveinOlyWA]

Two people who went from a 2015 and 2014 claim the seats are better.

From a test drive and some test sitting, the seats are better. Went from unacceptable to sort of OK.

Your experience will differ.

The Bolt is the most compelling car on price/range, and has been in production for a while with reasonably good results. If you are looking to buy, I'd suggest at least checking out the Bolt.

Not sure that you interpreted my comments correctly. I am saying LEAF + seats are supposedly better than previous models? (Since there is no 2015 Bolt)

[DougWantsALeaf]

The Bolt and the Leaf have effectively the same usable battery capacity (59-60kWh). The range difference I believe is due to overall weight (about 300 less for the Bolt) and likely some unsprung weight differences in the wheels. The Coefficient of drag on the 2 cars is very similar (.28).

[cwerdna]

If I were in the mild climate PNW, sure, I wouldn't find thermal management to be a big advantage.

You may not find thermal management much of an advantage in the Bay area as well.

Do you have LeafSpy? Is it linked to Dropbox?

If so, look at the battery temperatures you have had. A TMS should not be designed to cool the battery below dew point anywhere, and a dew point of 35 C (95 F) has been recorded. To cool the battery to 35 C, some parts would be cooler... So 40 C or 45 C cooling thresholds are more common. However, for USA only, 35 C isn't out of the question as a cooling threshold, and that is what GM seems to use.

I think, from various reports and a "Torque Pro" log of a Bolt from California, that the Bolt's cooling threshold is about 35C while charging or operating. The highest battery temperature in the log was 37C, over a summer.

I don't recall if we revisited this but https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/batte ... ost-512173 talks about Bolt cooling the battery to 27 C (which would be 80.6 F) when plugged in.

Today I had to go out in the afternoon and are high temps were past 80 F... maybe 85 F or so. My car was in the garage all night but the places I went to had no covered parking. When I arrived back home, I set the charging target level to lower than my SoC (so that I wouldn't waste $ charging at home) and plugged in my L1 EVSE. Sure enough, the thermal management kicked on. (Green light on the dash was solid, indicating no charging). Radiator fan was running and I could feel the hot air being sucked into the engine compartment. The hose for the battery coolant reservoir (front passenger side, near the radiator) was getting cool to the touch, as it does when the battery thermal management turns on.

I had done 0 charging today. Last time it was plugged in to charge was Friday afternoon until the evening.

There no turbulence in the reservoir for the coolant loop that cools the OBC, DC to DC converter, etc. When the car's in READY mode you can hear that pump and see fluid being pumped into that reservoir at the top + see turbulence below.

From https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/best- ... cfc.32809/, looking at the pink line, that guy in South Korea has observed battery being cooled down to about 26 C while DC FCing. Looks like the peak battery temp was 34 C before it started dropping.

I still need to get Torque and an appropriate OBD2 dongle for my Bolt.

OT: I've had this seat cover from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076XXDL38 (AirFlex 60-274005 Full Back Seat Cover with Fixed Air Compression, Black, full seat) for almost 2 weeks now. I don't drive the Bolt every day but I will say that it has solved my seat comfort issues w/the seat being too hard and the back hard and shaped oddly.

There are some downsides though. The back part allows me to pivot left and right too much in the seat. As some reviews put it, it almost feels like sitting on a balloon. There's no way to partly deflate it and I don't want to puncture as an experiment since it'd be permanent. I'm not clear if my bottom cushion of the cover has already leaked or ruptured as it's not as balloon-like as the back. But, whatever, it's ok as it is.

If I were to go driving in the twisties or knew I had such a route, I might actually remove the cover for that drive as the pivoting is annoying.

Also, due to the extra thickness, I feel my head is now too far from the head restraint. If I were to be in a collision, I think my head would end up snapping backwards and forwards more than w/o the cover. I'll need to look into a small pillow to attach to the head restraint.

[cwerdna]

BTW, this is exactly what battery thermal management sounds like on a Bolt, for those who haven't heard it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIeqWMkI4Iw

This isn't my Bolt but is someone else's at work. The loud higher pitched sound is the compressor and there's plenty of fan noise. It's pretty funny to hear this suddenly kick on in the middle of DC charging (not in this case). When I've had this engage in my garage at home, the compressor eventually gets quieter and most of what you hear later is just fan noise.

I was in the work parking structure to move and plug in my Leaf then plug in other cars. I happened to be there when the thermal management on this red Bolt kicked on. It was a very hot day, well past 90 F, possibly as high as 102 F at work. The parking structure was getting pretty hot too.

When I left work at 8:40 pm, my Leaf's OAT display said 91 F. Once I left the garage, it OAT eventually changed to 86 F or so.