danrjones
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Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
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Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Sun Oct 04, 2020 8:58 am

I'm trying to remember... was the refresh such as better seats pushed from 2020 to 2021, or 2021 to 2022? Or just dead?
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

cwerdna
Posts: 11134
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:36 pm

2021 Chevy Bolt EV Premier Gains Fast Charging As Standard
https://gmauthority.com/blog/2020/10/20 ... -standard/

Has some other remarks about 2021, 2022 model years and EUV.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GRA
Posts: 12259
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:24 pm

Okay, Bolt owners (cwerdna, Paul Gipe etc.), I need a quick tutorial. I'm considering leasing a Bolt given the good deals available (despite it falling well short of many of my requirements), but will rent one first to get some energy use data on a typical trip. I've found a 2020 Bolt LT w/QC which is currently available next week, and where the hassle factor to pick it up (BART + bus + 1-mi. walk): isn't too bad.

I'm waiting to see if it rains in the Sierra this weekend, and that it suppresses or even extinguishes the "Creek" fire, which has been smoking up the Sierra from about Mammoth north to Tahoe since Sept. 3rd. Current AQI along the Eastern slope is in the unhealthy to very unhealthy range, so unless it gets a lot better I won't go.

Assuming the trip happens, a few questions.

1. Are there any charging quirks I need to know about, like holding the handle up to initiate? I plan to use EA and maybe Chargepoint QCs, and possibly a free Clipper Creek L2 in Lee Vining.

2. I've had a Chargepoint card for several years, although it's gone unused. My understanding is that they will put a $20 credit from your CC on the card when you first use it. True?

3. Re EA, will a CC do, or should I really get the app? Do I need the app in order to get the + deal ($0.31/kWh)? I should be using well over the 33.3 kWh that justifies opting for the + plan.

4. Reading the 2020 Bolt owner's manual, it appears that it only keeps track of total energy usage since the last 'full' charge. Is this correct, or will it reset after a lesser charge? I intend to fully charge the car at an EA site a couple miles from home to get as complete energy info as possible on the trip (and work out any bugs with my EA account) and will be recording info at various sites along the way, but also plan charging stops closer to the Sierra, in Tracy (EA, 165 miles to Bridgeport) and/or Oakdale (Chargepoint, 129 miles), to maximize my charge before starting the climb to the east side, and give me more cushion in case the EA site in Bridgeport (ca. 200 miles & 6,300' net elev. gain from home, crossing a 9,624' pass enroute) is offline. My only backup on the east side are the free L2s in Lee Vining, 25 miles south, so if Bridgeport doesn't work I'll need hours of L2 to get back.

5. Any other Bolt-specific quirks I should know about?

Thanks.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

cwerdna
Posts: 11134
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
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Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:33 pm

GRA:
Yay! Make SURE it has DC FC if you want it. It MUST have the orange flap covering the two holes below the J1772 part. Don't waste your time if it doesn't have it. Visual aid at https://allev.info/2020/03/can-dcfc-be-added-later/. It will also be a $750 line item on the window sticker. Chevy dealers I've seen all have a window sticker button/link and will show that item, if present.

1) Yes. Hold up the handle on any stations w/heavy cables until the plug is locked to the car, which is probably all EA stations. You can hear the lock mechanism at ~2:30 into video at https://www.torquenews.com/8861/chevrol ... orrections.

Check Plugshare for all sites that you plan to use and backups.

2) Don't know now. I put on the initial $25 or whatever very early on. I believe the min amount is lower than when I started. I guess you can put nothing on and try. But, be prepared to deal w/their site or calling them if it doesn't work, to add the CC.
https://www.chargepoint.com/drivers/support-faq/ says
"How do I pay for charging?

When you sign up for a free ChargePoint account, you provide payment info so you’ll be ready to charge wherever you go. The first time you use a public station with a fee, we’ll charge you $10 to keep as a balance on your account. If you only use free stations or only charge at home with ChargePoint Home, you’ll never be charged."

Be sure to install the ChargePoint app and login to it before leaving from home. Ditto for EVgo and any other networks along the way, except maybe EA: just run but don't sign up yet.

Back to CP, login to your ChargePoint account and check that your card is linked to your account. One that's not linked nor activated is probably useless. I used CP most days at my work pre-COVID but it was all free at work. I've used paid CP a few times this year, so far. I have 3 CP RFID cards, all linked to the same account. One more might come with your Bolt (mine did, has a Chevy logo on it).

3) You REALLY should use the app for EA. Some CC readers don't work. Search https://insideevs.com/news/389891/exclu ... solutions/ for credit card reader.

As for the Pass+ price of 31 cents/kWh, I'm pretty sure you MUST use the app for that. I don't think there's ANY way to do that w/o it. When I signed up on EA, I was initially forced to choose Pass or Pass+ and be stuck with that for a month. Now after downgrading from Pass+ to Pass, they seem to allow upgrading at any time.

If you don't know if you'll use EA, just bring a few CC's along and sign up for Pass+ via their app while at a working EA site. If you are sure you will use it, wait until 0 to 3 days before the trip and sign up if you worry about when the Pass+ month clock starts ticking.

4) "it appears that it only keeps track of total energy usage since the last 'full' charge. Is this correct, or will it reset after a lesser charge?" -

I don't bother with this as my charging habits are intentionally quirky (e.g. avoiding charging at home on PG&E rates). What it considers "full" is dictated target charge level (skip 1:40 into https://insideevs.com/news/339311/video ... e-control/). There are quirks like if I am say at 80% battery then drop the target charge level to 40%, I think the energy usage in kWh and its trip odo will reset to 0. After learning of home and away settings for that, I set home to 40% and away to 100% (usually), so beats me when it resets. I just ignore it now.

If start with 100% and leave target charge level at 100% then do a bunch of partial charges in between NOT going to 100%, it will not reset. So, you could see stuff like energy used 150 kWh and 600 miles traveled.

You may want to watch the video at https://electricrevs.com/2018/07/17/wat ... -to-55-kw/ to get a sense of the ramp down. However, 2020 has more gentle ramp downs and not those sharp drops.

I won't be able to answer your path and charging location questions until later tonight or this week. Hope someone else can.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GRA
Posts: 12259
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:32 pm

Thanks for the detailed reply. To be clear, the Bolt I found is the one on Turo I hope to rent, and the owner specifically listed it as having QC; I wish they required that on Turo, 'cause I wasted some time last year reserving and then canceling one that didn't.

Unfortunately, the Chargepoint QC site in Groveland that I really need to be open, as it's best positioned for the majority of my Sierra trips, has been sitting untouched since I inspected it last October, waiting for a transformer. There is a rumor on Plugshare that it "might" be open by the end of this month, but I'm not holding my breath, given CEC's lack of urgency completing many of their other sites, esp. on 395.

BTW, believe me that I've been all over Plugshare whenever I plan such trips - they're simply not possible otherwise, given the limited charging opportunities along the way.

Anyway, owing to Yosemite still requiring advance reservations even if you're just transiting, and the uncertainty of whether I'm going or not, I'm taking a different route to the east side than I normally do, via 108 instead of 120. This is 300' less climb and on a somewhat slower road but similar distance, and close enough to my usual route/distance/conditions to provide useful data. It also takes me through Bridgeport, which is otherwise a 50 mile (RT) detour the opposite direction (N instead of S) to where I'm typically heading after reaching 395. For an experiment that's okay, but not for routine use.

BTW, while I'm considering a lease, the more I learn about some of the requirements to get the deals quoted by GCR etc., the less likely I'll qualify. Seems for the low-ball number they gave ($154/month +$154 down) I'd have to be an existing Costco member living in San Francisco! I don't mind spending$60 to join Costco if I could get that rate, but it seems you had to be a member as of September 1st. And I don't live in the City!

Also, I'd have to overcome my aversion to giving money to a company that's supporting Trump's EPA against the state. The problem with this is that if I refuse to give money to any corporation that's acted in opposition to my political or environmental desires or ethics, I quickly run out of vehicle options.

GM and Toyota (RAV4) are on the wrong side of the CAL/EPA fight, but on the right side is VW (ID.4); enough said. I consider Tesla's behavior re AP to be dangerously irresponsible, and even Kia/Hyundai lied about EPA mileage. Sigh. Subaru needs to offer a desirable, affordable ZEV AWD wagon/CUV; they know what behavior their customers expect of them, and so far at least they haven't violated that (or haven't been caught).

When all is said and done, it may make the most sense just to rent a BEV on Turo when I want to take a trip within its reasonable distance. The cost of a rental for 4 days or so is approximately the same as a monthly lease, and as 2020+ Bolts and other CCS BEVs with 235+ mile range increasingly appear on Turo, hopefully finding ones that are more accessible to me will become easier. And I'll keep my ICE for the trips that current BEVs make too much hassle. I'll still go to the trouble of finding out what lease deal I _do_ qualify for, before deciding.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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paulgipe
Posts: 368
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Location: Bakersfield, CA 93305
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:35 pm

Guy,

Just saw this and I have zoom meeting shortly for six couples here on leasing Bolts this year. We and another couple drove down to San Diego--500 mile, 14 hour, round trip--Saturday to buy two Bolts.

Quickly,

EA--yes, use the app. CC readers don't always work--but they can when you need them as I found out the hard way. ;)

CP, EVgo, as noted above. Make sure you have live accounts and you know how to use them (easy) and EA (not as easy).

On our return trip from San Diego I found that Chevy's Energy Assist app is working much better than before and was actually useful. I used it and ABRP. For some reason I couldn't use ABRP on the road and had to rely on the Assist app and it worked.

For newbies, I recommend leasing. You can get in a long-range EV for <$100/mo. In certain cases for <20/mo!

Paul
Bakersfield, California
2017 Bolt LT with DCFC, leased 11/09/17
2015 Nissan S with QC, leased, returned
2013 Chevy Volt Premium, used 10/3/16, sold
http://www.wind-works.org

GRA
Posts: 12259
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:24 pm

Thanks, Paul. Where are you seeing sub-$100/month leases? I've seen IIRR a Bolt lease listed for that locally, but IIRC it required $3,885 down so didn't seem all that great a deal, as you'd be out that if the car was totaled as you drove it off the lot!

For you and cwerdna, approximately how long does it take to charge from 15 or 20% to 100%? 75 minutes? 90? Obviously I'd prefer to limit my enroute charging to 80% or less, but given the dearth of charging options and the unknowns of a trip involving multiple actual or potential range-reducing factors in a car I have no experience with, I plan to be conservative.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

cwerdna
Posts: 11134
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Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:45 pm

GRA wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:24 pm
Thanks, Paul. Where are you seeing sub-$100/month leases? I've seen IIRR a Bolt lease listed for that locally, but IIRC it required $3,885 down so didn't seem all that great a deal, as you'd be out that if the car was totaled as you drove it off the lot!

For you and cwerdna, approximately how long does it take to charge from 15 or 20% to 100%? 75 minutes? 90? Obviously I'd prefer to limit my enroute charging to 80% or less, but given the dearth of charging options and the unknowns of a trip involving multiple actual or potential range-reducing factors in a car I have no experience with, I plan to be conservative.
I don't recommend putting any $ down on a lease due to the risk that you mention. Look at the total cost of the lease over its life. Feel good low monthly payments aren't worth it, in my book. But, paying some upfront will save some $ on interest (still not worth it to me).

Sorry, hard for me to characterize as I almost never DC FC starting from that low and don't go usually to 100% on DC FC as it gets real slow near the top (down to ~9 kW somewhere past 90%). If you look at https://electricrevs.com/2018/07/17/wat ... -to-55-kw/, Jeff started at 13% reported to the charger and it took him about 76 minutes to reach 90% on a 60 kWh car. His charge ended early as he had hilltop reserve enabled (removed from '19+ Bolts and replaced by the more flexible target charge level screen).

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GRA
Posts: 12259
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:12 pm

cwerdna wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:45 pm
GRA wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:24 pm
Thanks, Paul. Where are you seeing sub-$100/month leases? I've seen IIRR a Bolt lease listed for that locally, but IIRC it required $3,885 down so didn't seem all that great a deal, as you'd be out that if the car was totaled as you drove it off the lot!

For you and cwerdna, approximately how long does it take to charge from 15 or 20% to 100%? 75 minutes? 90? Obviously I'd prefer to limit my enroute charging to 80% or less, but given the dearth of charging options and the unknowns of a trip involving multiple actual or potential range-reducing factors in a car I have no experience with, I plan to be conservative.
I don't recommend putting any $ down on a lease due to the risk that you mention. Look at the total cost of the lease over its life. Feel good low monthly payments aren't worth it, in my book. But, paying some upfront will save some $ on interest (still not worth it to me).

Sorry, hard for me to characterize as I almost never DC FC starting from that low and don't go usually to 100% on DC FC as it gets real slow near the top (down to ~9 kW somewhere past 90%). If you look at https://electricrevs.com/2018/07/17/wat ... -to-55-kw/, Jeff started at 13% reported to the charger and it took him about 76 minutes to reach 90% on a 60 kWh car. His charge ended early as he had hilltop reserve enabled (removed from '19+ Bolts and replaced by the more flexible target charge level screen).
Thanks that info is far better than nothing, and is in line with what I was expecting.

As it happens the rain that had been in the forecast for the area of the Creek fire this weekend is no longer expected, and as the air quality where I want to hike/climb is still in the red and purple range, it seems much less likely that I'll do the trip. All of last month was lost for that reason, and now it looks like most or all of this month may be out as well. Which means the window to do the trip before the first snow closes the passes for the season is shrinking rapidly.

I couldn't do this trip last year for similar reasons, although then it was due to lack of a car on Turo.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:17 pm

I try to resolve the Down Payment Dilemma by telling people to put down no more than they are willing to lose.
(Says the guy who just helped his housemate put $5800 in trade-in equity down on a new Leaf.)
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
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