cwerdna
Posts: 11134
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:23 pm

GRA wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:16 pm
Nah, I lifted it up to make sure there was no extra weight on it, tried removing it with and without pressing the button, clicked my heels together three times while chanting the 900 Billion Names of God, and nothing. Would have tried sacrificing a virgin too, if one were available. :o
You MUST press and hold the button on the handle to release. I don't use EA much but on the BTC Fatboy EVgo (DrivetheARC) chargers I mostly use + one more ChargePoint DC FC (probably CPE 250 https://www.chargepoint.com/products/commercial/cpe250/), the button is mechanically linked to the latch like it is on J1772 handles. For sure you shouldn't be able to pull out the handle unless you press on the handle's button.

The CCS lock on the car side tries to block movement of the tang for safety reasons while charging, otherwise you'd get massive arcing if you disconnected while charging.

If you hit this again, perhaps try pushing on the handle towards the inlet while pushing on the handle's button before pulling w/button depressed? I could forsee some funky intermediate mechanical state.

My major was computer science and computers are a hobby, as well. I also work on software for a living. So, for me to be w/o a computer ummm... doesn't compute. :)

https://my.chevrolet.com/content/dam/gm ... 4432_A.pdf may help. It talks about auto. I don't know if the 2020 version is online but for your purposes, should be mostly the same.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GRA
Posts: 12259
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:51 pm

Okay, some boring charging and usage data. At Walmart in Tracy, the charge started at 4:38 (OAT 87 deg.) at 77% per the charger screen, at a rate of 28 kW. Up until then 96% of electricity used went to driving and accessories, 4% to CC, and 0% to battery conditioning.

80% 4:43, 2 kWh delivered (all rate and kWh delivered from EA charger display).
85% 4:52, 23 kW, 6 kWh del.
90% 5:01, 21kW, 10 kWh del.
95% 5:12, 18 kW, 13 kWh del.
100%, 5:30, 4 kW, 16 kWh del. Predicted ranges were 356 miles. max., 302 Median, 247 Min. Electricity used since last full charge reset to 0.0.

In Oakdale at the CP charger, I'd used 8.7 kWh to go 37.9 miles, SoC was 87% on the charger, the charge started at 6:42, I didn't note the OAT and the predicted ranges were 272/237/189.
90% charge stopped manually at 6:52, 8.65 kW, predicted range was 284/241/197.

Oakdale's about 155', 25 miles east is Yosemite Junction at a bit over 1,100' IIRR, essentially the start of the Sierra foothills. I stopped roughly every 20-30 miles to record predicted ranges and electricity used, from there over Sonora Pass and down to Bridgeport and Le Vining. If anyone wants that let me know.

For the climb and descent from the 120/395 junction to Tioga Pass and return that I just made, it took 6.9 kWh to go 12 miles and about 3,160' up. OAT was 65 deg. at the Jct., 64 at Tioga Pass. Predicted range at the Jct. was 298/253/207, at the pass 235/200/163, and I had Fan on 2, Recirc on and Temp set to 72 deg., max. speed was 65, and average was probably about 50, 'D' mode was used with the paddle for decel and regen.

Coming back down, starting 12 min. later, predicted range was up slightly at 237/201/164. At the Jct., OAT was now 71deg. usage had dropped by 1.7 kWh, and predicted range was now 299/230/187.
Last edited by GRA on Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 12259
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:00 pm

The 2020 manual's online and I figured it right, if you're talking about Auto CC.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

cwerdna
Posts: 11134
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:24 pm

No need to report the stats to us if you don't wish to. :)

When charging thru EA's app, the email you receive will include stats like these:
Charging pricing: $0.00 + $0.18/minute (pre-tax)

Charging cost: $3.19
Discount: $0.00
Idling: $0.00 ($0.40/min)
Sales tax (0%): $0.00

End state of charge: 49%
Total energy delivered: 13.2 kWh
Max charging rate: 51.07 kW
Charging time: 00:17:42
Grace period: 00:07 min
Paid idle time: 00:00
https://na.chargepoint.com/driver_reports under Usage History table will have each session, including time, energy dispensed in kWh and cost. It will not have a graph or peak energy. On CP's app, if you tap on each session, you'll be able to see the charging graph like the 1st screenshot attached to https://www.plugshare.com/location/78995.

The GOM min max (https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/the-m ... ore.18114/) is usually the middle value * 1.18 for max and middle value * 0.82 for min. Sometimes min diverges from 0.82. We don't know why. I pay little attention to the GOM. It's a waste of time to. I look at the battery bars and the 1% increment % SoC in the My Chevrolet app.

OT:
NHTSA investigating reports of Chevrolet Bolt EV battery fires
At least three cars sustained similar fire damage
https://www.autoblog.com/2020/10/13/che ... stigation/

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GRA
Posts: 12259
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:47 pm

Got home Wed. night after doing one of the three peaks I'd hoped to do on this trip, as the nearest other was inaccessible due to fire precautions closure, i.e. no fire now but they didn't want anyone back there. The other one would have required another overnight charge in Lee Vining to get home, and quite possibly that area too may have been closed for the same reason.

A few final items re the Bolt. Coming back over Sonora Pass in daylight allowed me to push it more, and no mistake, this thing's a pocket rocket. I think the last time I had that much fun on a winding two-lane was when my friend let me drive his M3 convertible! Not only does it handle well, but passing's a cinch in the mountains. Nothing like having sea level power at any altitude.

I finally managed to find a driving position that while not ideal, gave me adequate control/comfort/display visibility.

While doing some L2 charging at night, I wanted to pass the time reading. The map light(s), while very bright, are in front of you and shine in your eyes making reading uncomfortable. I could have made a shade out of duct tape or similar, but as it's not my car and brand new I didn't want to leave any tape marks, so didn't. For reading it needs a dome light behind the front seats, or directional map lights.

While the firm suspension made for great handling, it also made the ride really bad on frreway truck heaves, potholes/cracks, and the graded dirt road I drove about 3 miles on at no more than 15 mph. I wouldn't want to subject anyone with a weak stomach to that. Reminded me of my Datsun 2000.

Since I was back a day early I decided to run some local errands (recycling etc.), and keep the car in 'L'. Definitely the way to go around town or in stop and go, even though it may or may not be the most energy efficient option.

I prefer 'D' when cruising. My biggest concern is that in shifting from one mode to the other or driving multiple cars, the very different decel characteristics can slow your reflexes and possibly cause an accident. The car defaulting to 'D' on start up when I'd been driving in 'L' made this very noticeable, and I think the default mode should be settable.

When using 'D' and the paddle, the latter is sized for about two fingers and on a few occasions when I was making tight turns at speed and had to slow suddenly I found myself fumbling to find the paddle. I think it would help if its size were increased vertically so it fit three or even four fingers. ISTR the Niro was so sized, and while I didn't get a chance to drive that car spiritedly so can't make a direct comparison, I suspect it would be less of a problem.

Because the Bolt uses a solid cargo cover that tilts up rather than the horizontal roller type that both of my Subies have had, the cargo area light is located low on the left wall instead of directly overhead, providing far less even illumination of the cargo area. Another light on the right wall would help, but for someone like me who's often packing/unpacking/rearranging at night or oh-dark-thirty at trailheads and dive sites, it really made me appreciate the superiority of the roller cover/overhead light. Minor for most people, but for those with similar habits. . .

Re the EA app, I just spent 10 minutes or so venting on my amplified homephone to CS, telling them to record the call and, because of my deafness, only give yes/no answers to my questions. After giving them chapter and verse on my unacceptable charging experience, I told them to refund my $4 Pass+ fee and any occupying penalty and then close the account, also that any more detailed questions from them needed to be directed to my email, and that their website and chargers need to provide a real-time CS url as well as a phone number as I believed they aren't ADA compliant, and I'm going to find out. I then asked them to confirm they had my account info and email info to contact me, and they said yes. I then hung up.

This was after clicking on their "Contact us" link on their website, filling out their submission form with all the details above and then when trying to submit it getting a notice that the format of my email address needed to be corrected. As there was absolutely nothing wrong with it (I'd used it to sign up for Pass+ the week before), to say that I was irate when I called is like Donald Trump saying he's only done a fair job!

One last Bolt energy item. After charging to full in Lee Vining, resetting the trip meter and heading back, I found that upon arrival at Yosemite Junction (see post uptopic), 129.4 miles and 5,624' lower than L.V. after first climbing over Sonora Pass, I'd used 21.9 kWh and had averaged 5.9 m/kWh, using A/C and then just fan as I climbed higher. As noted above, I was not driving in such a way as to maximize efficiency!
Last edited by GRA on Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

cwerdna
Posts: 11134
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:10 pm

Will reply more later/tonight, I do agree about the hatch lighting. Leaf has the same issue. I wish they were brighter and had more light. That can be fixed via attaching/mounting your own battery powered lights.

I have no issue w/the map lights. There is sort of a dome light for the rear seats. But, it's probably too dim when when trying to use them to read in the front seat. Since the rear seat is more comfortable, if I'm working on my laptop or eating, I often sit in the rear.

As for EA refunding $4 Pass+ fee, they may not. https://www.electrifyamerica.com/terms/ says "Company will not provide refunds or credits for subscription fees for any partial-month subscription periods. " I wouldn't have had them close your account. I'd have just switched back to Pass.

As for your ask for default to L vs. D being selectable, yes, I've heard that request fairly frequently. I wouldn't be surprised if GM put some thought into NOT providing this due to directional cueing provided by creep. See https://web.archive.org/web/20081208040 ... -12051.htm under "B. Safety Importance of Creep Force in Cueing the Driver--Creep Force in Reverse". By default, Bolt will have creep in D and R (which it always does). User has to go out of their way to shift twice into L, which gets rid of forward creep.

I made a comment about no creep on BMW i3 at viewtopic.php?p=348698#p348698.
I overheard a woman talking (who likely didn't follow EVs) who basically said they were confused by the lack of creep (they didn't use the word and very likely weren't car enthusiasts judging by the way they talked about it) and said they were surprised by the very sudden leap forward when they used the accelerator. From what I overheard, it seems they were thrown off by putting it into D, via the very unconventional shift lever and motion and having the car do nothing, due to lack of creep.
I later confirmed i3 has no creep in both forward and reverse.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GRA
Posts: 12259
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:42 pm

cwerdna wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:10 pm
Will reply more later/tonight, I do agree about the hatch lighting. Leaf has the same issue. I wish they were brighter and had more light. That can be fixed via attaching/mounting your own battery powered lights.

Of course there are work arounds (I used my headlamp), but I'm talking about improving the car.

cwerdna wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:10 pm
I have no issue w/the map lights. There is sort of a dome light for the rear seats. But, it's probably too dim when when trying to use them to read in the front seat. Since the rear seat is more comfortable, if I'm working on my laptop or eating, I often sit in the rear.

For reading a map it's not a problem, as it takes up a larger area and you're only looking at it briefly. But for longer term use while focusing on a smaller surface, the glare definitely is an issue, at least for me.

cwerdna wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:10 pm
As for EA refunding $4 Pass+ fee, they may not. https://www.electrifyamerica.com/terms/ says "Company will not provide refunds or credits for subscription fees for any partial-month subscription periods. " I wouldn't have had them close your account. I'd have just switched back to Pass.

As I won't be needing to charge anytime soon, I'd just as soon get my info, esp. the CC I registered with them and which worked on only 1 out of four charging attempts, out of their system. I can always rejoin later if needed, and if reports indicate that the system's a lot more reliable than it is now. Not that CP was perfect, as 1 out of 4 chargers (total attempts at 3 sites) didn't recognize my CP card, but that's a lot better than 1 success of 8 or, tossing the attempts to use my phone, 1 of 4 successful attempts with EA to use the CC which I'd registered with them.

cwerdna wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:10 pm
As for your ask for default to L vs. D being selectable, yes, I've heard that request fairly frequently. I wouldn't be surprised if GM put some thought into NOT providing this due to directional cueing provided by creep. See https://web.archive.org/web/20081208040 ... -12051.htm under "B. Safety Importance of Creep Force in Cueing the Driver--Creep Force in Reverse". By default, Bolt will have creep in D and R (which it always does). User has to go out of their way to shift twice into L, which gets rid of forward creep.

I made a comment about no creep on BMW i3 at viewtopic.php?p=348698#p348698.
I overheard a woman talking (who likely didn't follow EVs) who basically said they were confused by the lack of creep (they didn't use the word and very likely weren't car enthusiasts judging by the way they talked about it) and said they were surprised by the very sudden leap forward when they used the accelerator. From what I overheard, it seems they were thrown off by putting it into D, via the very unconventional shift lever and motion and having the car do nothing, due to lack of creep.
I later confirmed i3 has no creep in both forward and reverse.

The other side of the coin is this: Having been driving in L and then briefly doing something else, turning the car off, you then get back in, start in R or D and drive off in the latter without realizing it, cruise up to where you need to stop or turn and take your foot off the accelerator, expecting that you will rapidly slow down in L having waited later than you would if you knew you were driving in D. A brief moment later your brain says this isn't right and you make a frantic grab for the paddle/shift lever/hit the brake. Happened to me several times, fortunately without anyone being close in front of me at the time.

Possibly the lack of creep is less of an issue for me, as I drive a stick so there isn't any, and thus I'm not expecting it. But that's my concern about switching back and forth, and why the default should be settable - the reaction should be what the driver expects to happen, and shouldn't arbitrarily change.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

webeleafowners
Posts: 1150
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:37 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2015
Location: Okanagan Valley British Columbia

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:47 pm

I like the bolt. Seems like it would be great in tighter traffic situations as well. The flat storage with the rear seats down is great.

Question. I know the bolt is assembled in the US. How much of the car is pre-assembled in Korea. I have heard various opinions on this but can’t find anything on the web on it.

Cheers.
2020 Model 3 Tesla. AWD with FSD. Deep metallic blue. Our daily driver.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KWh Culis Red. Sold. Was my daily driver. Loved that car.
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15049
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:26 pm

webeleafowners wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:47 pm
I like the bolt. Seems like it would be great in tighter traffic situations as well. The flat storage with the rear seats down is great.

Question. I know the bolt is assembled in the US. How much of the car is pre-assembled in Korea. I have heard various opinions on this but can’t find anything on the web on it.

Cheers.
Or ferries. The Bolt qualifies for reduced fares on Washington State Ferries due to its shortness.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 13,705 mi, 93.41% SOH
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LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 15481
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:58 pm

Question. I know the Bolt is assembled in the US. How much of the car is pre-assembled in Korea. I have heard various opinions on this but can’t find anything on the web on it.
IIRC, the drivetrain is Korean and the body and most of the interior is American. (The guy who designed the seats is Korean-sized, though.) The batteries are, until GM opens their battery plant, also Korean.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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