BernieTx
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Re: Gen 2 GM Volt Plug-in Hybrid (2016+) MSRP $33,995

Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:19 am

cwerdna wrote: Pretty impressive ... If it only had a 6.x+ kW OBC, even as an option...
GM focused on cost. The gen2 Volt is for folks who need a gasoline engine; once you have that, then charging mostly overnight is all you need; L2 at 3.6kw if needed. No big deal if the battery runs out. With the larger battery, most owners will get >75% EV; many much higher. The downside is that paid public L2 charging costs too much to make sense on the Volt.
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redLEAF
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Re: Gen 2 GM Volt Plug-in Hybrid (2016+) MSRP $33,995

Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:45 pm

BernieTx wrote:
cwerdna wrote: Pretty impressive ... If it only had a 6.x+ kW OBC, even as an option...
GM focused on cost. The gen2 Volt is for folks who need a gasoline engine; once you have that, then charging mostly overnight is all you need; L2 at 3.6kw if needed. No big deal if the battery runs out. With the larger battery, most owners will get >75% EV; many much higher. The downside is that paid public L2 charging costs too much to make sense on the Volt.
A new Volt could now more easily be a family's 'only' car and as long as the daily commute was say 60 miles or less; M-F would be gas free so perhaps much higher than the > 75%. The 'two-cars-in one' even more so than the 1st gen. With resale values being so poor on all of the first gen EV's and PHEV's I wonder what positive effect this might have for Gen 2 owner's as well. Lastly, it will still qualify for the $7,500 Fed Tax Credit (this article states Chevy has sold about 75,000 so would assume they still have about 125,000 to go before it runs out) so that's welcome with the expected base price reduction as well

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BernieTx
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Re: Gen 2 GM Volt Plug-in Hybrid (2016+) MSRP $33,995

Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:44 pm

redLEAF wrote: A new Volt could now more easily be a family's 'only' car and as long as the daily commute was say 60 miles or less; M-F would be gas free so perhaps much higher than the > 75%. The 'two-cars-in one' even more so than the 1st gen. With resale values being so poor on all of the first gen EV's and PHEV's I wonder what positive effect this might have for Gen 2 owner's as well. Lastly, it will still qualify for the $7,500 Fed Tax Credit (this article states Chevy has sold about 75,000 so would assume they still have about 125,000 to go before it runs out) so that's welcome with the expected base price reduction as well
http://www.carscoops.com/2015/05/the-20 ... 26495.html
The gen1 Volt has better resale value than the gen1 Leaf, if you look at what's out there on autotrader or something like that. They both take a pretty big hit due to the rebate, and due to new models coming out later this year. I think GM has a winner with the gen2 Volt When I talk to people about the Volt running equally well on gasoline and on battery, and most of my driving never even using the ICE, the reaction I get is that a lot of folks instant think that's a good idea, instead of only having a battery. Also, GM's battery TMS ensures the battery is immune to hot weather, with the battery expected to have 85-90% capacity at 150,000 miles. The Volt is slowly getting more popular, just based on current owners who are still excited about it. For this year, our gen1 Volt is 78% electric. Most of the gas miles are due to weekend trips; at home, most of our local miles are electric especially now that I have an L2 charger at home.
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cwerdna
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Re: Gen 2 GM Volt Plug-in Hybrid (2016+) MSRP $33,995

Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:32 pm

BernieTx wrote:
cwerdna wrote: Pretty impressive ... If it only had a 6.x+ kW OBC, even as an option...
GM focused on cost. The gen2 Volt is for folks who need a gasoline engine; once you have that, then charging mostly overnight is all you need; L2 at 3.6kw if needed. No big deal if the battery runs out. With the larger battery, most owners will get >75% EV; many much higher. The downside is that paid public L2 charging costs too much to make sense on the Volt.
Sure, but I almost never charge my Leaf overnight.

Instead, most of my charging is at work (for free) and sometimes free public L2s. As I said at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 47#p430047 and many times elsewhere (but fixed a typo):
"Having the 6 kW OBC means I charge much faster at work and tie up a space for less time AND can start charging much later, when many people are done or have gone home. It also means my opportunity charging (if I go to work on the way home from somewhere) or at free 30 amp L2 EVSEs is MUCH faster."

Having the slow OBC means those cars are hogging the spots a lot longer than they need to be.

Volts and Spark EVs sometimes use that same free public charging L2 charging (w/30 amp EVSEs) and thus are tying up a handle much longer than necessary.

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BernieTx
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Re: Gen 2 GM Volt Plug-in Hybrid (2016+) MSRP $33,995

Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:23 am

cwerdna wrote:
BernieTx wrote: ....The gen2 Volt is for folks who need a gasoline engine; once you have that, then charging mostly overnight...
Sure, but I almost never charge my Leaf overnight... most of my charging is at work (for free) and sometimes free public L2s.
The Volt isn't for everyone. The two requirements for buying a Volt are (1) you need a gasoline engine, and (2), you charge overnight. GM isn't convinced that a high enough percentage of buyers will pay enough extra for 6.x L2 charging. 60% of Volt buyers only charge at 120v, and most of the remaining buyers are ok with 15A L2 charging. If only a small percentage of buyers are willing to pay extra to charge at 6.xKW L2, than adding the option doesn't cover development and product costs, even if those buyers are willing to pay an extra $1000/car... sorry; the gen2 Volt was all about returning to profitability :(
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cwerdna
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Re: Gen 2 GM Volt Plug-in Hybrid (2016+) MSRP $33,995

Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:44 am

BernieTx wrote:60% of Volt buyers only charge at 120v, and most of the remaining buyers are ok with 15A L2 charging. If only a small percentage of buyers are willing to pay extra to charge at 6.xKW L2, than adding the option doesn't cover development and product costs, even if those buyers are willing to pay an extra $1000/car... sorry; the gen2 Volt was all about returning to profitability :(
Maybe they should make it standard then.

Many other EVs only come w/6+ kW OBCs in the first place, no wimpy 3.x kW OBC even as a choice. Even the Accord PHEV came w/a 6.6 kW OBC. All Tesla powered ones from Model S onwards (e.g. Model S, Rav4 EV and Merc B-Class ED) all come w/10 kW OBC. Model S can have a 2nd 10 kW OBC installed.

As for those people remaining people being "ok" with it, perhaps many don't know what they're missing? I just laugh/shake my head whenever I start a session for a Volt and see it only pulling ~3.1 kW out of the wall (on 208 volt L2 EVSEs) and seeing how long it takes to take on ~10 kWh vs. my Leaf.

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BernieTx
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Re: Gen 2 GM Volt Plug-in Hybrid (2016+) MSRP $33,995

Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:52 am

cwerdna wrote:
BernieTx wrote:... sorry; the gen2 Volt was all about returning to profitability :(
Maybe they should make it standard then.
The focus was on reducing costs.
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Valdemar
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Re: Gen 2 GM Volt Plug-in Hybrid (2016+) MSRP $33,995

Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:42 am

BernieTx wrote:
cwerdna wrote:
BernieTx wrote:... sorry; the gen2 Volt was all about returning to profitability :(
Maybe they should make it standard then.
The focus was on reducing costs.
It is really unfortunate. They could at least make it an option. I suspect their cost difference between the low and higher powered charger would be several hundred dollars and many would gladly pay it as in many cases a higher powered charger is all that it's needed to be 100% electric.
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Re: Gen 2 GM Volt Plug-in Hybrid (2016+) MSRP $33,995

Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:16 pm

In 4 1/2 years, I can easily count on two hands of fingers when 6.0 Kw charging would have made any difference to me... Sure it is nice, but for many (such as myself), it makes very little practical difference...
cwerdna wrote:As for those people remaining people being "ok" with it, perhaps many don't know what they're missing?
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Re: Gen 2 GM Volt Plug-in Hybrid (2016+) MSRP $33,995

Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:35 pm

IMO, there is no legitimate reason for any BEV/PHEV with an available capacity of ~ten kWh or more to not give customers the option of a DC port.

The only logical explanation why any BEV/PHEV manufacturer would not make this option available to its customers, is that that company wants to pick up a few million more sucker sales, by delaying the inevitable write-off of their large investments in the development and production of ICEVs and PHEVs.
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