GRA
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:44 pm

Sure it will be expensive, but do Porsche buyers care? No more than Model S P100D buyers do, which will be the competition. It will be what Porsche buyers expect. As has been pointed out to you repeatedly, while all charge networks (including the SC network) are currently "very limited", the high-power CCS network is rapidly expanding, currently far quicker than Tesla's own V3 SCs are. And while the Model 3 will closely approach the Taycan's charge rate, the Model S won't.

Porsche seems to have as many reservations for the Taycan as they can handle. Now, maybe major problems will develop with the car once it gets into the hands of owners, but that's far less likely than was the case with Tesla, given that Tesla was essentially starting from scratch 16 years ago.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

EatsShootsandLeafs
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:16 am

EVDRIVER wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:22 pm
That car with options will be very expensive, have very limited charging network and will not be mass produced. The market share will no be any competitive threat to Tesla models and you can get a 3P that will perform at 95% for half the cost, is more efficient, has more range and you can drive distances. Wait for until people actually own and drive these cars.
You have a muscle car mentality. Saying that a 3 will perform 95% as well is like saying I can buy a sub $100k dodge hellcat that does an amazing 0-60, therefore a $400k ferrari is a waste of money.

Taycan will take S buyers whether you like it or not and, to the point, it proves that a dinosaur can build a superior EV.

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EVDRIVER
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:26 am

Yes some sales will go to fans and others that’s not my point. None of the car makers are making EVs that will sell in the same numbers as the 3. I’m sure Ferrari and other super cars take sales as well. The s is also a much larger car in a different class. Until there is a very good and reliable charge infrastructure and EVs that are more efficient there still will be no significant competitors. The S has huge cargo capacity, a 370 mile range and the worlds best charging network that is reliable. The LEAF is also a Tesla competitor.

GRA
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:21 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:26 am
Yes some sales will go to fans and others that’s not my point. None of the car makers are making EVs that will sell in the same numbers as the 3.
Not yet, but they obviously can. But that wasn't your claim. In reply to EatsShootsandLEAFs' statement that
Much conjecture over the past couple of years about what would happen when a real car company put their weight behind an EV. And now we know. Big surprise, it turns out that those dinosaur car companies actually are pretty good at making EVs if they really want to
you wrote
Name one.

I take it you are now agreeing that the Taycan is a good (B)EV. So are the Bolt, Niro, and Kona, ftm, and you might even put the LEAF in that category for a limited climate range. None of them will sell as well as the 3, but then neither will the S or X. So what? BEVs still aren't equal to less expensive ICEs in many ways, and they remain niche vehicles dependent on subsidies, perks, mandates and 'cool' factor for sales. Only the higher end of the market can ignore the price and infrastructure disadvantages they still labor under.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:32 am

webb14leafs wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:32 am

I'm a little perplexed by your comments on the Model 3's reliability. Not refuting them at all, as I've read similar complaints before; but I know several Model 3 owners who absolutely love their car and have had no problems whatsoever. Most of them are hardcore fanboys though, so that might be why.
Evaluating what I have seen, read and people I know, the greatest category by far is people who love their 3's AND have had problems including one lady who had hers in the shop a DOZEN (not kidding here) times exceeding a year. Her final resolution? Tesla bought her car back and she got another 3!

Now that is fanboyism!
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

EatsShootsandLeafs
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:57 pm

GRA++
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:32 am
webb14leafs wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:32 am

I'm a little perplexed by your comments on the Model 3's reliability. Not refuting them at all, as I've read similar complaints before; but I know several Model 3 owners who absolutely love their car and have had no problems whatsoever. Most of them are hardcore fanboys though, so that might be why.
Evaluating what I have seen, read and people I know, the greatest category by far is people who love their 3's AND have had problems including one lady who had hers in the shop a DOZEN (not kidding here) times exceeding a year. Her final resolution? Tesla bought her car back and she got another 3!

Now that is fanboyism!
My God, who has time for that sort of nonsense. In the shop a dozen times.

A scathing article just came out by Vanity Fair: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/08 ... -solarcity

I believe this sums up my thoughts on Musk perfectly. As I've noted before, I had a deposit on a Model 3 until some time in 2018 when I became thoroughly disenchanted by Musk and the company. I don't know what Musk used to be, but nowadays I think he is the pied piper.
But over the years, many skeptics have come to see Musk’s stunts—from smoking pot during an interview to calling a diver who helped rescue kids trapped in a Thailand cave a “pedo guy”—as more unhinged than iconoclastic. One close observer of Musk recalls how he promised, back in 2001, to give away half of his equity in PayPal—dividing it evenly between “the people that have worked hard to build the company” and “causes I believe make the world a better place.” But Musk never made good on the pledge, and the observer came to see the episode as “symbolic of Musk’s penchant for making grandiose statements that he either knows are not true at the time he makes them, or that he has no real intent of following through on.” Others see Musk’s promises as purposefully manipulative. “Musk has a habit of overstating Tesla’s operational capabilities and its prospects for profitability, especially when the company is preparing to raise capital, collect customer deposits, or secure regulatory benefits,” says Brian Horey of Aurelian Partners, an investment firm.
Yep. He is, in short, a BSer. He BSes, he lies. He cannot be trusted.

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Nubo
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:16 pm

EatsShootsandLeafs wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:16 am
EVDRIVER wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:22 pm
That car with options will be very expensive, have very limited charging network and will not be mass produced. The market share will no be any competitive threat to Tesla models and you can get a 3P that will perform at 95% for half the cost, is more efficient, has more range and you can drive distances. Wait for until people actually own and drive these cars.
You have a muscle car mentality. Saying that a 3 will perform 95% as well is like saying I can buy a sub $100k dodge hellcat that does an amazing 0-60, therefore a $400k ferrari is a waste of money.

Taycan will take S buyers whether you like it or not and, to the point, it proves that a dinosaur can build a superior EV.
Will it? Or will it just help expand the market? Which is better for Tesla, 90% of a niche market, or 30% of a huge market? The adoption curve beckons. We've barely entered the "early adopter" phase, if at all.

Image
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

EatsShootsandLeafs
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:26 am

Nubo wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:16 pm
EatsShootsandLeafs wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:16 am
EVDRIVER wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:22 pm
That car with options will be very expensive, have very limited charging network and will not be mass produced. The market share will no be any competitive threat to Tesla models and you can get a 3P that will perform at 95% for half the cost, is more efficient, has more range and you can drive distances. Wait for until people actually own and drive these cars.
You have a muscle car mentality. Saying that a 3 will perform 95% as well is like saying I can buy a sub $100k dodge hellcat that does an amazing 0-60, therefore a $400k ferrari is a waste of money.

Taycan will take S buyers whether you like it or not and, to the point, it proves that a dinosaur can build a superior EV.
Will it? Or will it just help expand the market? Which is better for Tesla, 90% of a niche market, or 30% of a huge market? The adoption curve beckons. We've barely entered the "early adopter" phase, if at all.

Image
If it works out that way for them yes :)

GRA
Posts: 11041
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:45 pm

The Verge:
Tesla launched a car insurance product, then spent the next 24 hours fixing it
6
Some owners were getting quoted higher-than-expected rates before the website went down
https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/29/2083 ... california

California only for now. Apparently back up as of 8 p.m. EDT. AP article describing potential need for Tesla to cover its autonomous cars next year, if commercial carriers won't: https://www.latimes.com/business/story/ ... california
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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Nubo
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:57 pm

If anything can sink Tesla, it's the headlong rush to autonomous cars. Good luck assuming all liability.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

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