asimba2
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Re: 2016 Prius Gen 4 PHEV

Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:27 am

evnow wrote:Prius has gone from boring to hideous.

I hope Nissan doesn't do something stupid with Leaf.
My feelings exactly. If the Leaf ends up looking like that I would reconsider getting another one. Luckily, Nissan's new designs are looking better than Toyota's.

GRA
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Re: 2016 Prius Gen 4 PHEV

Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:42 pm

palmermd wrote:I was certainly looking forward to something similar to the concept/show car they had a few years ago. But when spy shots started showing up a year or so ago I could tell that that was not going to happen. Oh well. Probably due for a short run model anyway . Might be time to start the cycle over with a 3 year run.

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Image
That's a lot better looking car, and passes the 'isn't weird' test.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
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Re: 2016 Prius Gen 4 PHEV

Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:42 pm

It looks too much like a previous gen Civic, though, with some Accord thrown in.
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Re: 2016 Prius Gen 4 PHEV

Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:00 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:It looks too much like a previous gen Civic, though, with some Accord thrown in.
Considering how bland most Toyotas were prior to the upcoming generation (bland, they ain't!), that would have been a huge improvement.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: 2016 Prius Gen 4 PHEV

Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:31 pm

Via IEVS:
Toyota Prius Prime First U.S. Drive Reviews Are In – Videos.
http://insideevs.com/toyota-prius-prime ... in-videos/
. . . Starting at $27,950 (or $23,450 after the federal tax credit has been applied) the Prius Prime is well positioned inside the Prius family (as the most inexpensive/value leader) and is worth considering among other PHEVs, especially considering the all-electric range is rated at 25 miles of real-world/EPA driving.

First tests shows about a 11 second 0-60 mph acceleration time, and despite a slightly higher weight, the new Prius Prime handling is improved compared to previous generation, while netting a 54 MPG combined efficiency rating when now relying on electric propulsion. . . .

Toyota Prius Prime quick spec:

up to 25 miles (40 km) all-electric EPA range (31 miles / 50 km NEDC) via a 8.8 kWh (7 kWh usable) battery (up to 84 mph / 135 km/h in EV mode)
124 MPGe fuel economy rating (EV mode) or 54 MPG regular hybrid mode
Full recharge in 5.5 hours using a standard household outlet. Charging takes less than half the time with a 240V source (3.3 kW in U.S.). (In Japan, the Prime is also available with CHAdeMO). . . .
I think this is exactly the combination needed to move PHEVs to the mainstream: a sub-$30k MSRP and at least 20 miles AER. IMO the Prime even looks somewhat better, at least in the photos I've seen, than the ugly Gen 4 Prius HEV. Given the huge installed base of satisfied Prius customers, who mostly stayed away from the Gen 1 PiP because it didn't offer enough for the money, I expect excellent sales, especially here in California now that the limit on green HOV stickers has been removed. Unless you simply have nowhere to charge it, you've just got to have that 5th seat or the raised cargo floor is a non-starter, why wouldn't you opt for the PHEV instead of the regular one (even then, the people who want them solely for the stickers will still buy them for that, just as they did the Gen 1)? Neither of them is going to thrill you with their performance, but for routine A to B driving that's irrelevant.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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TomT
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Re: 2016 Prius Gen 4 PHEV

Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:41 pm

Nope, 25 miles is still way too little EV range (and its too ugly)... Anything less than 50 does not work for me... Plus, I am not a Toyota fan... YMMV.
edatoakrun wrote:You think it will outsell the Volt gen 2?
Last edited by TomT on Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: 2016 Prius Gen 4 PHEV

Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:02 pm

gsleaf wrote:My biggest issue with the 1st gen PiP (other than terrible EV range) was the engine vibration was awful. Does anyone know if the 2nd gen will improve this?
I think some of them may have defective engine mounts. Ours is smooth.
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Re: 2016 Prius Gen 4 PHEV

Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:23 pm

TomT wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:You think it will outsell the Volt gen 2?
Nope, 25 miles is still way too little EV range (and its too ugly)... Anything less than 50 does not work for me... Plus, I am not a Toyota fan... YMMV.
But you're a BEV early adopter, not part of the mainstream. 20 miles AER will cover the routine daily driving needs of 50% of Americans, and the price is low enough that it isn't dependent on qualifying for the full Federal tax credit to be affordable for many, plus it has Toyota's rep for reliability. No argument on its looks, although to me it does look like they gave it a few less whacks with an ugly stick than the regular Prius.

I do think it will outsell the Volt 2, for the above reasons and also because it gets considerably better mpg in CS mode. It's probably roomier for four as well, although it may have less usable cargo space. As far as driving dynamics the Volt wins, but the average Prius driver doesn't care that much about driving dynamics, and at least the Gen 4 Prius has improved its dynamics over the previous generations, from abysmal up to mediocre.
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The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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Re: 2016 Prius Gen 4 PHEV

Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:51 pm

Some more first drive reviews:

GCR:
2017 Toyota Prius Prime: first drive of new plug-in hybrid
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/110 ... -in-hybrid
The 2017 Toyota Prius Prime is a considerably better car than a few electric-car fans had feared. In fact, with an EPA-rated range of 25 miles (more than projected) and energy efficiency so high—at 124 MPGe—that it matches the BMW i3 with all its whizzy advanced technology, it’s a very viable plug-in hybrid choice. . . .

But just as the fourth-generation conventional Prius hybrid is a far better car to drive than its predecessor, the Prius Prime is a much better plug-in hybrid than the first plug-in Prius. . . .

On further drives after the cars had been recharged, we confirmed that the Prius Prime is a decent if not particularly speedy electric car for its battery range. It's good off the line from 0 to 30 mph, but begins to lag a bit at higher speeds, though it will accelerate entirely on electric power to 75 mph or a bit more. . . .

The engine and electric motors combine seamlessly in most cases, but when maximum power is required, the engine spins up to high speeds and moans noticeably from up front under the hood. Otherwise, the Prime shares the much improved roadholding, handling, and comfortable ride of the conventional Prius. . . .

No safety ratings have yet been released for the Prius Prime, though it has a comprehensive suite of electronic active-safety features with the awkward name of Toyota Safety Sense-P as standard equipment. Those include automatic emergency braking with pedestrian detection, adaptive cruise control, lane-departure alert, and automatic high beams. In addition, Toyota adds a blind-spot monitor and rear cross-traffic alert to the highest trim level, the Prius Prime Advanced. Last year's new fourth-generation conventional Prius was designated a Top Safety Pick+ by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS). . . .

And Toyota has priced the Prime range aggressively, with the Plus starting at $27,950, the Premium at $29,650, and the Advanced at $33,950. (All prices include a mandatory $850 delivery fee.) It qualifies for a $4,500 federal income-tax credit, and in California, it is eligible for both a $1,500 purchase rebate and the coveted green sticker that gives single-occupant access to carpool lanes on freeways.

While the Prius Plug-In Hybrid was not a 50-state car, the Prius Prime will be, Toyota says. . . .
ABG:
Seriously better | 2017 Toyota Prius Prime First Drive
If you want a Prius, this is the one to get.
http://www.autoblog.com/2016/10/03/2017 ... -1-review/
It's a fair question to ask if buyers of a new 2017 Toyota Prius Prime will be disappointed when they stomp on the gas pedal. After a day spent behind the wheel of the way, way updated version of the Prius Plug-In, we're guessing the 0-60 acceleration time is a leisurely 10 seconds or so. Toyota hasn't provided any official times, but it's perfectly clear that the Prime is not a quick car. It does, at least, feel quicker than any other Prius. But is anyone going to care?

Toyota has spent over a decade defining what a "Prius" is in the minds of consumers: a hybrid, "the" green car, and a reliable way to use less gas than your neighbors do. As some point that ideological space got crowded with cars like the Tesla Model S, the Chevy Volt, and any number of gas-electric hybrid offerings. In response, Toyota is trying to shift the conversation over to the hydrogen future with the Mirai. But Toyota is not neglecting the vehicle and brand that got it this far down the green trail. . . .

Let's start there, with the cost, because that's going to be a key reason that makes people care about the Prime. Not counting any state or federal incentives, the new plug-in Prius starts at $27,100 for the base trim, called the Plus. That's $3,000 lower than the original Prius Plug-In. The two other trims levels are the Premium at $28,800 and the Advanced at $33,100. All three qualify for up to $4,500 in federal tax credits. Considering that the standard Prius starts at $24,685, getting the many benefits of the Prime for an after-credit price of $22,600 is truly compelling. Toyota wants you to compare these numbers to the Chevy Volt, of course ($33,220 MSRP, or $25,720 after a $7,500 tax credit) but the real numbers to be look at here are the all-electric range and miles per gallon after the battery runs out. Depending on your personal driving situation, those will be much more important than up-front cost.
For someone like me, who doesn't need much AER for local use but needs high mpg on trips, the Prius Prime's blend of AER/mpg is better, although I'd prefer some increase in passing ability from 30-50 and 50-70, even at a cost in mpg. For people with the opposite requirements the Volt's approach is superior. OTOH, I'm not thrilled with the Prime's split-level cargo area with the rear seats down.

Looks-wise there's no contest, but some people (including me) are more concerned with how well you can see out of the car while driving it, than with what it looks like from the outside, as we spend far more time engaged in the former than the latter. Still, it would certainly boost sales here if it were better looking. We'll see how much more people are willing to spend for that reason (and/or 4.5 or 5 seats), as the Fusion Energi and Hyundai Sonata PHEV as well as the Volt are all competitors.
Last edited by GRA on Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

edatoakrun
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Re: 2016 Prius Gen 4 PHEV

Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:11 pm

GRA wrote:...it wouldn't certainly boost sales here if it were better looking. We'll see how much more people are willing to spend for that reason (and/or 4.5 or 5 seats), as the Fusion Energi and Hyundai Sonata PHEV as well as the Volt are all competitors.
You left out what is likely to be the most direct competitor ( when it hits the USA next summer) the Ioniq PHEV.

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/ioniq

Hyundai Ioniq BEV, hybrid, and PHEV.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=21136

Far better looking, and likely to be more efficient, less expensive, and with superior build quality than the Prius.
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