edatoakrun
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Re: Hyundai Ioniq BEV, hybrid, and PHEV.

Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:53 am

CAR likes the BEV version best, and so do I (despite it having the wrong DC port, in the wrong location):

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-review ... ic-review/
evnow wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:This review of the GB BEV model compares it favorably overall with gen 1 LEAF:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/hyundai/io ... car-review
Would creating a brand new product that beats your competitor's 5 year old model a good strategy exp. with the next gen coming out in a year or so ?

We'll find out - but won't be surprised if this is just a compliance car (just sold a little more widely like FFE than Fit EV).
Hyundai has made a habit letting the Japanese lead, then following with superior cars, at lower prices.

I believe the Ioniq was primarily intended as, and is a real threat to Toyota's market dominance, both as a hybrid and PHEV.

A few years ago, Hyundai management probably noticed that Americans seem to want their BEVs to look like ICEVs (as Tesla has capitalized on) so they figured why not just utilize the Ioniq as a BEV?

As long as gas prices stay low in the USA, no manufacturer will be making much money on BEV sales here, whether sold in large numbers or not, and this is why the LEAF is being produced and sold here at a reduced fraction of its world sales, in not much more than compliance numbers.

I am hopeful that Nissan will make major improvement whenever it sells the gen 2 LEAF, or (if CARB allows it to) a BEVx that might work even better for me.

Meanwhile, within a few months, the Ioniq looks to be available at lower price, longer range than a ~30 kWh LEAF.

And its ~300 Lb. lower weight suggests it will probably have efficiency and fun-to-drive advantages over the LEAF in my mountain driving.

So I'm still interested.
no condition is permanent

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
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Re: Hyundai Ioniq BEV, hybrid, and PHEV.

Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:44 am

There are some new videos worth watching, especially the two below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eAFMQ4n820

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MB1Nph5Y5s

An unsubstantiated rumor is that the Ioniq has ~31 kWh total capacity, and may be essentially one-half of the ~62 kWh (?) pack LG supplies to GM for the Bolt.

But the Ioniq's projected 125 MPGe rating (highest of all BEVs sold in the USA) suggests the range may be significantly more than one-half that of the Bolt, especially at higher speeds or in Mountain driving, where both the Ioniq's lower drag and ~500 lbs lower weight will come into play.

I expect the total cost of ownership of the Ioniq to initially be ~$100 to $150 per month lower than for the Bolt.

Even more important, I expect the Ioniq to be much more fun to drive on my mountain roads than the Bolt.

If it actually has ~28 kWh available, I estimate the Ioniq's effective range when new (when leaving ~10 freeway miles, or ~20 low-speed miles in reserve, ~ at the VLBW on my LEAF today) will be ~2.2 times that of my LEAF, which I estimate is now down to ~17.5 kWh actual available capacity, from "100%" charge to turtle.

That's close to all the range I want for occasional longer trips, and all I want to pay for and drag around with me on every other trip, when I don't need nearly that much.

So, unless Nissan releases some news on the Gen Two LEAF pretty soon...
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LKK
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Re: Hyundai Ioniq BEV, hybrid, and PHEV.

Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:51 pm

Seems a bit late to the party. Range is only half the next generation BEVs and power is only 88 KW (117 HP), which makes it slower than the current Leaf. I expect Nissan to announce the next gen Leaf soon and it should be better in every way.

mtndrew1
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Location: Gardena CA

Re: Hyundai Ioniq BEV, hybrid, and PHEV.

Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:30 pm

LKK wrote:Seems a bit late to the party. Range is only half the next generation BEVs and power is only 88 KW (117 HP), which makes it slower than the current Leaf. I expect Nissan to announce the next gen Leaf soon and it should be better in every way.
Agreed. I'm not sure how they're going to compete with the Ioniq BEV unless it's very attractively priced. I guess they could move a few at $29,995 advertised as $19,995 post-rebates in California.
2018 Tesla Model 3 Long Range (100% charge @ 43k miles shows 5.8% degradation)

2013 Nissan Leaf S + QC sold with warranty pack replacement (~35% degradation @ ~40k miles)

2015 Kia Soul EV+ Lease returned 10/14/17 45,000 miles w/ 13.8% degradation.

edatoakrun
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Re: Hyundai Ioniq BEV, hybrid, and PHEV.

Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:03 am

="LKK"...Range is only half the next generation BEVs...
If by "next generation" you mean the Bolt, which will be on the US market only a few months later than the Ioniq, that is probably incorrect.

If you assume the Ioniq has ~half the total available capacity of the Bolt, it will still have more than half the total effective range, due to higher efficiency.

This will be particularly noticeable at high speeds and on trips with large ascents, due to the Bolts high weight and drag.

On a cold day at freeway speeds for example, the Ioniq might have close to 20% greater efficiency in m/kWh than the Bolt.

Meaning, that if you wanted to do something as foolish as take a very long freeway trip in either BEV using todays available DC infrastructure, generally limited to under 50 kW (and with many CCS DCs only ~ half that fast) you might actually be able to complete your trip almost as quickly, and perhaps even more rapidly, in an Ioniq than you could in a Bolt.

Due to the multiple rapid charge/discharge cycles required, the two BEVs differing thermal management systems might actually become the determining factor in this contest.

You'd definitely save some money driving the Ioniq on this trip (and every other) which many BEV drivers might find significant, particularly in consideration of how much many public DC sites charge per kWh.
="mtndrew1"...I'm not sure how they're going to compete with the Ioniq BEV unless it's very attractively priced...
Attractive pricing is how every affordable BEV/PHEV is currently being sold or leased, though The LEAF, one of the best selling, is still offered at close to the most expensive leases:

http://ev-vin.blogspot.com/2016/07/curr ... d-evs.html

I'm waiting for the Gen Two LEAF myself, but if it turns out to be something similar to either the Bolt or the Tesla 3, I doubt I'll be interested.
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edatoakrun
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Re: Hyundai Ioniq BEV, hybrid, and PHEV.

Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:46 pm

An anectdotal report on Range coming from Korea:
1750km Test Drive in Ioniq Electric

I recently got to spend a week test driving the Ioniq Electric around South Korea. Here's some photos...

220km is the distance you can drive on the motorway at 110 km/h...
http://myioniq.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=73

~137 miles at ~68 mph sounds a might bit optimistic to me...

That would require ~4.9 m/kWh efficiency, even assuming ~28 kWh available capacity.

An impressive efficiency, but also one unlikely to hold up under scrutiny, IMO.

I think you'd be more likely to only get close to that ~4.9 m/kwh on a warm day at the California unofficial 55mph truck and trailer speed limit, ~63 mph.

Of course, when you are in the right lane on a freeway, you generally also pick up a variable fraction of a mile per kWh due to the drafting effects from other vehicles, so you probably will be able to count on well over two hours of right-lane-driving time between (full capacity) recharges in an Ioniq BEV under most conditions, which is close to as long as I usually like to drive without a break, anyway.
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Marktm
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Re: Hyundai Ioniq BEV, hybrid, and PHEV.

Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:54 pm

Can anyone confirm that the BEV version might resolve one of Leaf's design issues - however, will it create others?

"One interesting technical aspect of the Ioniq range: the cars have no 12-volt battery. Instead, the engine is started and accessories are run by one module of the high-voltage pack."
2012 Leaf SL; 46,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.

rmay635703
Posts: 559
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:43 pm

Re: Hyundai Ioniq BEV, hybrid, and PHEV.

Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:44 pm

That would be a terrible idea, my 1981 comutacar did that with lead and the 2 batteries running the ignition always wore out faster

edatoakrun
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Re: Hyundai Ioniq BEV, hybrid, and PHEV.

Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:35 pm

Owner manual available here:

https://carmanuals2.com/get/hyundai-ion ... ual-101276

Lot's of the features look similar to LEAF.

Like late-model LEAFs, it also doesn't appear to have any charge setting below "100%", which is a real problem if you start most of your trips with a large descent.
Marktm wrote:Can anyone confirm that the BEV version might resolve one of Leaf's design issues - however, will it create others?

"One interesting technical aspect of the Ioniq range: the cars have no 12-volt battery. Instead, the engine is started and accessories are run by one module of the high-voltage pack."
As per manual, it has a 12 V battery.
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JejuSoul
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Location: Jeju

Re: Hyundai Ioniq BEV, hybrid, and PHEV.

Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:30 pm

Hi
I am the author of the1750km Test Drive in IONIQ Electric article.

The topics covered on this are -
1/ Overview
2/ Charging
3/ Servicing
4/ Range and Efficiency
5/ Interior
6/ Safety features
7/ Marketing

Am currently trying to write a conclusion. I want to write a positive ending to this, but am struggling to find good reasons why anyone would actually buy this car. It is a great car in so many respects but only has half the battery capacity of what seems to be its main competitor.

edatoakrun: I appreciate your comments and If I may I would like to use them in my conclusion. "Even more important, I expect the IONIQ to be much more fun to drive on my mountain roads than the Bolt". And "That's close to all the range I want for occasional longer trips, and all I want to pay for and drag around with me on every other trip, when I don't need nearly that much."

I don't yet know if has been very attractively priced in the U.S. Here in Korea, not really. It is struggling to sell here, even though there is no competition with the bigger battery packed cars yet.

----------------------------------------

Even though the Ioniq EV and the Chevy Bolt both have LG Chem battery packs the pack structure and the actual cells seem to be quite different. (Note the word seem - it is very hard to get any accurate info about the battery pack from Hyundai)

The IONIQ EV has a battery pack by LG Chem.
It has 192 polymer pouch type cells laid out in a series string of 96 sets of 2 parallel cells.
The IONIQ EV battery pack is 31 kWh and weighs 271.8kg -> Gravimetric Energy Density = 114 Wh/kg

The Chevy Bolt also has a battery pack by LG Chem.
It has 288 polymer pouch type cells laid out in a series string of 96 sets of 3 parallel cells.
The 2017 Bolt battery pack is 60 kWh and weighs 435kg -> Gravimetric Energy Density = 138 Wh/kg

see - Comparing the Soul EV battery with the Ioniq EV

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