edatoakrun
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Re: Hyundai Ioniq BEV, hybrid, and PHEV.

Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:40 am

Results of this cool weather mixed use range test of these three ~30 kWh class BEVs shows about what you'd expect in efficiency and range, IMO.

Ioniq leads in both:
BMW i3 vs Nissan Leaf vs Hyundai IONIQ Electric

Lukáš Dittrich from the Czech auto magazine autobible.cz published an article where the BMW i3, the Nissan Leaf and the Hyundai IONIQ Electric had their range tested.

The road test was made in mid-November on Czech roads near Prague with bad weather – wet roads and outside temperature of 5-6º C. The heating was on.

To be noticed is the fact that the test wasn’t made at a constant speed. A substantial part of the route was made at highway speeds. Looking at the map in detail I count at least 107,5 km made on toll highways. While another part of the route was made at county roads and around the city.

Let’s see the results in the table below.


Hyundai IONIQ Electric

BMW i3 (94 Ah battery)

Nissan Leaf (30 kWh battery)

...

Average consumption over the second part of the route

17 kWh /100 km

19,6 kWh /100 km

20,7 kWh /100 km

Total traveled to halt

165 km

149,1 km

122,1 km
http://pushevs.com/2016/12/04/bmw-i3-vs ... -electric/

Reporting from:

http://autobible.euro.cz/hyundai-ioniq- ... zapomente/
no condition is permanent

GRA
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Re: Hyundai Ioniq BEV, hybrid, and PHEV.

Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:33 pm

Via IEVS:
Autocar Pits Hyundai IONIQ Electric Versus BMW i3, Nissan LEAF, Volkswagen e-Golf
http://insideevs.com/autocar-pits-hyund ... en-e-golf/
Autocar recently tested four all-electric models competing in the compact class:

  • BMW i3 (33 kWh, 114 mi EPA)
    Hyundai IONIQ Electric (28 kWh, 124 miles EPA)
    Nissan LEAF (30 kWh, 107 mi EPA)
    Volkswagen e-Golf (24 kWh, 83 mi EPA – we should note that a new version is coming: 35.8 kWh, 124 mi EPA expected)
…and found that each of those models have both strong and weak points.

The VW e-Golf for example offers the best driving experience in Autocar’s opinion, while the i3 is a premium model with a higher quality interior along with great agility.

The overall winner of the test is declared to be the BMW i3. . . .

The Volkswagen e-Golf, despite being the only ‘sub-100 mile’ car finished 2nd. . . .

While the Hyundai IONIQ Electric takes third. . . .
Direct link to Autocar article: http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-c ... group-test
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

edatoakrun
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Re: Hyundai Ioniq BEV, hybrid, and PHEV.

Fri Dec 09, 2016 5:16 pm

GRA wrote:Via IEVS:
Autocar Pits Hyundai IONIQ Electric Versus BMW i3, Nissan LEAF, Volkswagen e-Golf
http://insideevs.com/autocar-pits-hyund ... en-e-golf/
Autocar recently tested four all-electric models competing in the compact class:

Rather bizarre reasoning, IMO, to rate EVs primarily on how good a second car they would make, or concluding that buying a BEV with the Ioniq's many advantages somehow means it will be your only car...

As I drive a BEV as my primary car ( >90% of my total road miles, as both driver and passenger) the advantages of the Ioniq as described in that article seem pretty compelling.

Not the least of which are that the larger interior is a definite advantage in my primary car, and if I do buy an Ioniq to replace my LEAF, I'll be fortunate to be able to travel by ICEV even less often than I have to now, due to the Ioniq's superior fuel economy and range.
...It’s big, the Ioniq: 50mm longer at the kerb than the Leaf and almost 250mm longer than the e-Golf. Building it on Hyundai’s first-ever platform to be dedicated to EVs and hybrids has paid dividends, and if you need space to carry adults in the back seats as well as a large boot in your new EV, you need look no further. I’m not sure how many customers really need such things from a second car, nor how many would be ready to switch to electric power for their only car. My guess is that it’s not many. Still, plenty of cleverly packaged space isn’t to be sniffed at.

But Hyundai has brought the Ioniq into the segment in a competitive place on more than just boot space. Even in range-topping form, the car is lighter than both the Leaf and e-Golf, beats both on official claims for battery range and 0-62mph acceleration and is cheaper than both at like-for-like list price...
no condition is permanent

GRA
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Re: Hyundai Ioniq BEV, hybrid, and PHEV.

Fri Dec 09, 2016 5:37 pm

edatoakrun wrote: Rather bizarre reasoning, IMO, to rate EVs primarily on how good a second car they would make, or concluding that buying a BEV with the Ioniq's many advantages somehow means it will be your only car...

As I drive a BEV as my primary car ( >90% of my total road miles, as both driver and passenger) the advantages of the Ioniq as described in that article seem pretty compelling.

Not the least of which are that the larger interior is a definite advantage in my primary car, and if I do buy an Ioniq to replace my LEAF, I'll be fortunate to be able to travel by ICEV even less often than I have to now, due to the Ioniq's superior fuel economy and range.
...It’s big, the Ioniq: 50mm longer at the kerb than the Leaf and almost 250mm longer than the e-Golf. Building it on Hyundai’s first-ever platform to be dedicated to EVs and hybrids has paid dividends, and if you need space to carry adults in the back seats as well as a large boot in your new EV, you need look no further. I’m not sure how many customers really need such things from a second car, nor how many would be ready to switch to electric power for their only car. My guess is that it’s not many. Still, plenty of cleverly packaged space isn’t to be sniffed at.

But Hyundai has brought the Ioniq into the segment in a competitive place on more than just boot space. Even in range-topping form, the car is lighter than both the Leaf and e-Golf, beats both on official claims for battery range and 0-62mph acceleration and is cheaper than both at like-for-like list price...
Everybody's got their own criteria, and that will skew the ratings accordingly. For me, the (bigger battery) e-Golf would win hands down among the four if I were in the market, if the MSRP were under $30k. While Hyundai/Kia have upped their quality control/reliability a lot since they started to produce and now rank quite high, they continue to fall short when it comes to the driving dynamics that will appeal to driving enthusiasts, something that (as in this case) the German brands generally are the best at (and also skip the electronic gimmickry displays/controls). But if you just want a reliable A to B car and don't care about its handling/feel, then the Ionic will rank higher (as will the LEAF, battery issues aside). Luckily, there are now choices in this category to suit most tastes, although I don't think any of them can be priced over $30k with the roughly 2x-ranged Bolt starting at $37.5k. I think low-100 mile range BEVs need to start at <=$28k to really have a chance, and 150 mile range <=$30k.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

edatoakrun
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Re: Hyundai Ioniq BEV, hybrid, and PHEV.

Fri Dec 09, 2016 5:55 pm

GRA wrote:... when it comes to the driving dynamics that will appeal to driving enthusiasts, something that (as in this case) the German brands generally are the best at...
What exactly are the driving dynamics of the slow, overweight, and overpriced VW, that appeal to you as a driving enthusiast?

Did you actually read the original article, rather than the cut-and-paste you quoted?
Hyundai Ioniq, Volkswagen E-Golf, BMW i3 vs Nissan Leaf - electric vehicle group test
The Hyundai Ioniq Electric is the latest addition to a growing class of city-friendly battery-powered hatchbacks. We pit it against its rivals
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-c ... group-test

If I had to drive mostly in cities, which is the setting of the comparison, maybe I'd prefer the Golf.

I drive mostly on mountain roads, and expect I'd prefer the Ioniq's "heavy steering and long wheelbase" the writers seem to have found to be such a burden in negotiating city traffic.

What they really seem to like about the Golf, however, is that it is an BEV designed to reassure the most dedicated ICEV drivers:
...The e-Golf plays it safe; it doesn’t reinvent the wheel, or the gear selector, if it needn’t, so every control instantly feels familiar...
So of course, you also might prefer the Golf, in the unlikely event you were ever able to give up all the other benefits you recount from driving an ICEV.
no condition is permanent

rcm4453
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Re: Hyundai Ioniq BEV, hybrid, and PHEV.

Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:35 pm

The IONIQ wins hands down for efficiency with freeway driving. It will have the most AER at 70mph! If I could do it all over I would get this car instead of my Leaf as 99% of my driving in the Twin Cities area is freeway!

GRA
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Re: Hyundai Ioniq BEV, hybrid, and PHEV.

Sat Dec 10, 2016 3:32 pm

edatoakrun wrote:
GRA wrote:... when it comes to the driving dynamics that will appeal to driving enthusiasts, something that (as in this case) the German brands generally are the best at...
What exactly are the driving dynamics of the slow, overweight, and overpriced VW, that appeal to you as a driving enthusiast?

Did you actually read the original article, rather than the cut-and-paste you quoted?
Yes, I read the article, as well as numerous road tests of the e-Golf that have appeared elsewhere which all praise its dynamics compared to other BEVs or FTM the typical Asian compact, however powered. The Golf's always had good driving dynamics, because the Germans demand that from their cars. This used to be true throughout VW's lineup, but recently they've softened some of their larger cars (e.g. Passat) to better reflect typical U.S. preferences, making them better highway and around town cruisers but more boring to drive. Hyundai/Kia's cars, pretty much across the board, are all dinged by car enthusiast mags for their relatively poor driving dynamics. Hardly a surprise; getting the tuning right can take engineers years, and of course the type of driving that's common in the home country also enters into it. It took a decade or two for the Japanese to start producing cars with good dynamics - the Datsun 510 was an early success among small sedans, and the 1600/2000 were British roadsters done better than the British could as far as performance for the price, while the 240Z was the breakthrough and then we got the rice rockets like the original CRX Si. Hell, the tiny late '70s Civic Hatchback was a blast to drive in the twisties. I expect the Koreans can get there if they want to, but from every review I've read, the Ionic isn't that car; it leans Camry rather than WRX.

The article doesn't have much to say specifically about the e-Golf's dynamics other than ride (and its excellent controls), but sums it up as follows: "Pioneering technology delivered with VW polish. E-Golf is strong in every important area but curiously expensive on a monthly basis." As to being overpriced, they all are, the i3 ludicrously so.

edatoakrun wrote:
Hyundai Ioniq, Volkswagen E-Golf, BMW i3 vs Nissan Leaf - electric vehicle group test
The Hyundai Ioniq Electric is the latest addition to a growing class of city-friendly battery-powered hatchbacks. We pit it against its rivals
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-c ... group-test

If I had to drive mostly in cities, which is the setting of the comparison, maybe I'd prefer the Golf.

I drive mostly on mountain roads, and expect I'd prefer the Ioniq's "heavy steering and long wheelbase" the writers seem to have found to be such a burden in negotiating city traffic.
In town, I don't care much about a car's dynamics, because traffic makes most performance measures almost irrelevant (except for too-heavy, slow steering, an issue for parallel parking and U-turns). It's precisely on mountain roads that driving dynamics come to the fore, and that's where the VW shines, whether it's powered by batteries or an ICE. But judging by the speeds you seem to be content to drive on your Lassen loop, you probably aren't pushing the car to the point that the differences are notable. Which car would you rather drive on a mountain road, a '65 Impala which has "heavy steering and long wheelbase" or a '69 Datsun 2000, which is short coupled, has terrific dynamics but a much firmer ride? I've driven both (s well as many other cars) on narrow, winding mountain roads , and while I'd take the Impala for cruising on the highway or beat-up city streets, get onto twisting two-lane and the 2000 really comes into its own.
edatoakrun wrote:What they really seem to like about the Golf, however, is that it is an BEV designed to reassure the most dedicated ICEV drivers:
...The e-Golf plays it safe; it doesn’t reinvent the wheel, or the gear selector, if it needn’t, so every control instantly feels familiar...
So of course, you also might prefer the Golf, in the unlikely event you were ever able to give up all the other benefits you recount from driving an ICEV.
That's your take on why I'd appreciate it. My take is that it is a car that's meant to be driven, with ergonomic controls that don't distract you from driving and give you good feel and feedback, responsive handling, firm yet comfortable ride over varied road surfaces, adequate accel (more's always better), good brake feel etc. It also has decent cargo space with the rear seats up (an area where the i3 comes up short), is relatively short which makes finding a parking spot easier, enough seat travel that I have to move the seats _forward_ several inches from their rear stop instead of feeling that I've got barely adequate leg room with them all the way back as is typical with Asian cars, a flat load floor long enough with the seats forward to lie down stretched out, good visibility etc. In short, it performs well as a CAR, rather than being a technological toy store that's meant to draw your attention to everything but driving.

OTOH, none of the European brands approach the Asians when it comes to reliability or parts costs, and that's certainly a factor that weighs heavily with me when I buy a car, so that lowers the VW's score considerably. Unless a car's just about ideal in every other way, I won't even consider one that doesn't rate 'above average' or 'much above average' in CR's 'frequency of repair' owner reports, and won't go below average at all. That's kept me away from VWs in the past, and I wouldn't touch an i3 for that reason even if their price wasn't ridiculous and they didn't have gimmick doors. Sadly, the Gen 2 Volt seems to be having a lot more issues than Gen 1, or maybe the owner demographic has changed and more of the general public are buying them now. Hopefully GM can get it together.

Anyway, that's my valuation, and if an Ionic meets yours better, more power to you. Luckily, we're finally getting enough choices to cover a fair spread of buyer's needs/preferences.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
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Re: Hyundai Ioniq BEV, hybrid, and PHEV.

Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:19 pm

Bjørn Nyland reports on his Winter trip from Oslo to Trondheim and back, in a borrowed Ioniq EV.

IMO, like most of his Tesla videos, it would benefit from a lot of editing.

But if you have the time, they're worth watching.

He seems most impressed by the price, "one-third" that of his Tesla S.

Most interesting to me were efficiency reports (close to 4 m/kWh at ~50 mph, at ~0 C, on studded tires) and shots showing use of the various driving modes and screen options.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04kfyrZBrAU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy79PZHXq04
no condition is permanent

edatoakrun
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Re: Hyundai Ioniq BEV, hybrid, and PHEV.

Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:43 am

Anyone seen the two (!) Hyundai Ioniq BEV, now at the Silicon Valley Auto Show?

Still no announced USA delivery date, perhaps due to the improvements announced below (in google translation):
Ionic Electric Car Next Month New Model Widening the Back Seat Ceiling Space

Hyundai Motors' electric 'Ionic Electric' increases the backseat ceiling space by more than 4cm. The battery in the back seat improves the complaint that the seat is raised structurally and the head reaches the ceiling. As new overseas models of electric cars are launched in succession, they reflect consumers' opinions...

The slip phenomenon, in which slippery wheels slip from steep slopes such as slopes, will be improved in a more structured manner over time. This is because it is not easy to solve the structural problem that loads a lot of batteries at the back of the car.

A Hyundai Motor official said, "Most of the inconveniences received from customers during the six months of the car launch are reflected in the new model in 2017,"...
http://www.etnews.com/20170103000233

If you need to drive up steep slopes in the snow, you probably will want to look into the Ioniq's traction capability.

In fact, MY LEAF has the same problem of traction loss on steep grades on gravel, mud, ice, or snow, as do all front-wheel drive vehicles.

But the much lighter Ioniq, with even less of that weight on the front axle, might be particularly problematic.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Hyundai Ioniq BEV, hybrid, and PHEV.

Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:05 pm

I think I can live with that issue, as long as it only occurs in extreme situations that I don't encounter. ;-)
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