User avatar
TomT
Posts: 10650
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
Contact: Website

Re: Toyota Prius PHEV

Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:56 pm

No, I think it was simply because they were being cheap...
cwerdna wrote:Not sure if this has been discussed as I don't follow this thread much, but it just occurred to me the other day that another reason why Toyota might've gone w/such a small battery size/short AER range is that the chances of someone driving and partly depleting or draining the li-ion battery (to the level that the car allows) is very high.
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
2019 Tesla Model 3; LR, RWD, FSD, 19" Sport Wheels, silver/black; built 3/17/19, delivered 3/29/19.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 16117
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Toyota Prius PHEV

Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:30 am

It may also be that making the pack any larger would have either required a major redesign of the rear of the car, or would have adversely affected handling. On our test drive I noted that the rear of the car feels like it's loaded with groceries even when empty in the PHEV, so imagine a heavier battery *and* a load in the rear...
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

User avatar
TomT
Posts: 10650
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
Contact: Website

Re: Toyota Prius PHEV

Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:15 am

Again, it goes back to Toyota trying to do it on the cheap rather than trying to do it properly... It has lots of the vestiges of a compliance car...
LeftieBiker wrote:It may also be that making the pack any larger would have either required a major redesign of the rear of the car, or would have adversely affected handling. On our test drive I noted that the rear of the car feels like it's loaded with groceries even when empty in the PHEV, so imagine a heavier battery *and* a load in the rear...
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
2019 Tesla Model 3; LR, RWD, FSD, 19" Sport Wheels, silver/black; built 3/17/19, delivered 3/29/19.

GRA
Posts: 12488
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Toyota Prius PHEV

Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:32 pm

TomT wrote:Again, it goes back to Toyota trying to do it on the cheap rather than trying to do it properly... It has lots of the vestiges of a compliance car...
LeftieBiker wrote:It may also be that making the pack any larger would have either required a major redesign of the rear of the car, or would have adversely affected handling. On our test drive I noted that the rear of the car feels like it's loaded with groceries even when empty in the PHEV, so imagine a heavier battery *and* a load in the rear...
I think it may well be due to Toyota trying to continue the practice of emphasizing operating cost/TCO above all. They sponsored several studies which claimed to show that a 7 mile PHEV was the most cost-effective given the current conditions, which is undoubtedly correct but misses the point for the early adopters.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

User avatar
TomT
Posts: 10650
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
Contact: Website

Re: Toyota Prius PHEV

Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:38 pm

Perhaps in some parts of the country, but I knew few in this part that have only a 12 to 14 mile daily round-trip... We have a number of people at work with PIPs - no charging there - and all I hear is constant bitching about how they are constantly running out of juice and having to drive on gas... Apparently they didn't believe or understand how limited the electric range is... Two of them have traded for Volts.
GRA wrote:They sponsored several studies which claimed to show that a 7 mile PHEV was the most cost-effective given the current conditions, which is undoubtedly correct but misses the point for the early adopters.
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
2019 Tesla Model 3; LR, RWD, FSD, 19" Sport Wheels, silver/black; built 3/17/19, delivered 3/29/19.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 16117
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Toyota Prius PHEV

Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:38 pm

Whether intentionally or by accident, Toyota has marketed the PHEV in such a way as to make it unappealing to the people they want to buy it. It isn't an EV, so it doesn't appeal to people who want to drive in electric mode, but it has "Plug-In" badges on it. It is much more work for most people than a typical hybrid, so they pass on it because it's too "EV-like." It should be marketed as a "Super-Hybrid" that can get 70-90MPG on commutes under 100 miles, while retaining unlimited range at 50+MPG. It should be targeted to people with short to moderate commutes (and a garage with an outlet free) who don't really want an EV, just fantastic gas mileage. It's also (along with the Volt) a great primary vehicle for families who have a Leaf or other EV.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 11535
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Toyota Prius PHEV

Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:03 am

^^^
FWIW, it's part of Toyota's ZEV compliance efforts (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6853" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) as the PiP is an enhAT-PZEV. Cars like the 04+ Prius, Prius v wagon, Camry Hybrid, etc. are AT-PZEV and also help.

It qualifies for CA green HOV stickers (http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/carpool/carpool.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) and despite selling in a very limited of states, still has a decent position in terms of US plug-in sales (http://www.hybridcars.com/august-2013-dashboard/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;).

It also seats 5 (vs. 4 of the Volt), doesn't lose much cargo space vs. the regular Prius (just the part above the spare tire and below the rear cargo floor/shelf), doesn't require premium (unlike the Volt), gets 50 mpg combined (vs. 37 mpg combined of the Volt), is cheaper than the Volt, and is still classified as a midsize car vs. the compact Volt.

But, yes, its EV range is very limited and it has limitations in terms of acceleration and max speed before the ICE kicks in.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 16117
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Toyota Prius PHEV

Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:48 am

I understand about compliance cars, and that Toyota didn't want the PHEV to be wildly popular. Still, they clearly miscalculated when they under-hyped and mis-advertised them, otherwise they wouldn't have ended up having to put them "on sale" to clear out last year's models. Good news for us, but bad news for the niche...
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

User avatar
TomT
Posts: 10650
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:09 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
Contact: Website

Re: Toyota Prius PHEV

Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:36 am

So much for advanced certain technologies... In the IIHS test of crash avoidance systems, "the Toyota Prius V wagon scored so poorly that it didn't qualify for an IIHS front crash prevention rating."

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/l ... 6908.story" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
2019 Tesla Model 3; LR, RWD, FSD, 19" Sport Wheels, silver/black; built 3/17/19, delivered 3/29/19.

cwerdna
Posts: 11535
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Toyota Prius PHEV

Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:22 pm

TomT wrote:So much for advanced certain technologies... In the IIHS test of crash avoidance systems, "the Toyota Prius V wagon scored so poorly that it didn't qualify for an IIHS front crash prevention rating."

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/l ... 6908.story" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
First off, the Prius v wagon has little to do w/the PiP (aka Plug-in Prius aka Prius PHEV/PHV). Second, I haven't had a chance to look into the details but http://priuschat.com/threads/iis-and-a- ... rt.130908/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; sums up what IIHS has been (oddly?) doing recently. I've noticed it too. I figured that IIHS was a relatively neutral/unbiased party, but one has to wonder.

Re: those "test results", well, probably 99+% of all other vehicles on US roads don't have any sort of auto-braking system, so they'd fail too.

http://priuschat.com/threads/iis-and-a- ... rt.130908/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is some discussion about Toyota's systems can/will and cannot do.

From http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505266_162-57604931.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Toyota officials say that their Prius V does not have auto-braking technology, and they say that they don't advertise that it does - what they say is their vehicle has a pre-collision system that mitigates the effects of a crash.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Return to “Other Electric Cars & Plug-In Hybrids”