LeftieBiker
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Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Official Toyota Prius PHEV thread

Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:44 pm

I'm not entirely sure, but I think that I may have found a way to boost our PIP's fuel economy - and have cabin heat! - under certain circumstances.

I semi-regularly drive to a friend's house in a nearby city. I take my housemate's PIP instead of the Leaf because of the rough-ish neighborhood in which I park. It's about an 8 mile drive each way. (I also have another friend there who is about 6 miles away from me. I usually take the Leaf to her house.) Anyway, I usually use EV mode within the cities, and Hybrid mode (with heat in Winter and A/C in Summer) on the secondary road/highway portion, which is about 5 miles. I usually get about 72 MPG each way. Tonight, however, I used EV mode for about three miles of the highway, and about two of the city miles, absent-mindedly, also leaving the heater on, then switched back to HV mode, leaving the heat on. When I got home, the car estimated 86MPG, and I had 2.3 EV miles left, out of 10.3 estimated with the battery charged. I usually have less than 2 miles of EV range left. That's Summer range territory, not Winter. Here is what I think happened:

For several miles I used a sort-of-mode that occurs when you have the car in EV mode but also run the heat: the engine starts regularly, but not frequently, to keep the coolant hot for heat, but then shuts back off when it's warm. I don't generally use this quasi-mode because I don't want the ICE running in EV mode. However, it appears that this mode doesn't just give you heat; it also stretches out the gasoline fuel economy substantially. I wasn't observing closely, but I suspect that the computer that manages these things tries to start the ICE when it is both cooling off AND the car is going up a grade or hill. Another thing I happened to notice tonight (I may have seen it in the past and just forgotten) was that if you are traveling on a flat street - not downhill, but flat - in this mode, the fuel consumption display will still show 100MPG WITH the engine essentially idling, but running.

I know that the PIP is essentially obsolete tech now (although the overall hybrid powertrain design is still great), but for those of us who still drive a PIP, this bears further investigation. It will likely only work in mild temps (it was in the mid to upper fifties Fahrenheit tonight, but I had the heat set to 74F) and maybe even slightly warm temps, but that still covers a lot of driving. You are essentially simulating a "Super Eco Mode" by telling the ICE to only run often enough to maintain its coolant temp at optimal. The car then runs the ICE less often than when in Eco mode, which also 'steals charge' from the EV-designated portion of the battery, but these ICE warmups also add to both the range and fuel economy, by using the ICE to climb grades. A VERY rough guess on my part is that you can boost the MPG estimate into the eighties for maybe 20-25 miles of driving this way - less in hilly terrain or colder weather.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

jjeff
Posts: 1948
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Official Toyota Prius PHEV thread

Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:12 am

While not a PIP I also notice the 99MPG thing on our regular Prius('07) when the heat is on, and ICE is on but basically coasting or going down hill. I always wonder how the ICE can be on(the graphics show it on and I believe I can hear the ICE running, but it's very quiet so I'm not 100% it's actually running) yet it show 99MPG or 80s or 90s MPG.
I'm guessing your PIP is very similar to our regular Prius but yours just has a bit bigger battery and maybe more EV power as basically as soon as I step on the gas(basically enough to squish an egg if there were one between my foot and the accelerator peddle) the ICE starts :( and of course you can plug yours in, hence the PIP nomenclature :)
Wow, over 3 years since anyone has posted in this thread!
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

LeftieBiker
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Re: Official Toyota Prius PHEV thread

Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:17 pm

Yup, the PIP is essentially a regular Prius but with a larger, lithium battery. You can step harder on the gas without an ICE start happening, and can go up to 15 miles in EV mode, instead of up to 1 mile. The PIP also uses the lithium pack to get better MPG in hybrid mode, by both storing more energy from braking and by having more battery to use..
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

jjeff
Posts: 1948
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:32 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:18 pm
Yes, it seems that we have a lot of them left in this region as well. It's frustrating: it would be a great replacement for the PIP, with tons more EV range, electric heater - if only it didn't have that squashed, cramped body...
I Soooo much wanted the Volt to work for us but coming from a Prius(regular) the Volt was such a cramped ill-designed car neither of us could imagine ever owning one. On paper it looked great(and still does) but between it's stupidly designed(IMO) "cockpit" ridiculously large shifter(WTF!) and minimal storage, we drove away in our Prius and really never looked back. Now if only the Prius had utilized the Volt's large battery.....now that would have been a winner ;)
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

LeftieBiker
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:37 am

I guess the Prime is in our future, if I can convince my housemate to give up the PIP - which is doubtful.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

BrockWI
Posts: 795
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:28 am
Delivery Date: 28 Mar 2014
Leaf Number: 423875
Location: Green Bay, WI.
Contact: Website

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:59 am

Yes, if the Prime had ~50 miles range on electric I wouldn't be considering other vehicles, but the majority of our daily driving is at least 50 miles, but then there is the twice a month or so 250 or 400 mile round trip jaunts.
3 kw solar pv - XW6048 - eight L16's
4 ton GSHP - 1 ton ASHP
2003 VW TDI 200k miles - 52 mpg lifetime
EVSE level 2 - Clipper Creek HSC-40
2013 S model with QC package Mar of 2013
lost first bar @ 72k
@90k miles - 54.71Ahr - 83.64SOH - 78.44Hx - 237GID

jjeff
Posts: 1948
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:37 am

BrockWI wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:59 am
Yes, if the Prime had ~50 miles range on electric I wouldn't be considering other vehicles, but the majority of our daily driving is at least 50 miles, but then there is the twice a month or so 250 or 400 mile round trip jaunts.
I agree, owning a Prius and really liking almost everything about it, it makes me mad they didn't give us at least 50 or even 40 miles of EV range on the Prime, it's almost like they want to make it good......but not too good to be able hardly ever touch a stinky gas nozzle! Don't get me wrong, I appreciated the jump from the original PIP which IMO was a joke(sorry Leftie) and would never entice me to leave our regular Prius, it's just if the Prime had doubled the size(or at least given that option for a premium) of the battery it would be so much more practical.
While still running good and only a little over 100k on the clock our regular Prius is approaching 14 years old and starting to show rust, that and it's got a broken rear spring and I keep my fingers crossed the original battery pack doesn't fail as I've read it's a $1000+ repair even using a used pack. No if the Prime had a 40-50 mile range we'd have probably already traded in our trusty Prius, as it is were kind of on a holding pattern for a long-range ICE vehicle with a battery for town so we can get rid of one vehicle. We've got a couple Leafs for in-town driving(won't make it all the way across town and back but the majority of places we go and the Prius which can sit for weeks undriven only to be driven in emergencies, 70+ mile in-town driving and of course where it shines, getting 50 MPG on 500+ mile trips. If the regular Prius conks out or has an issue too costly to fix or one of the Leafs die, not probable, it would speed up our decision, otherwise the current Prime is top of the list and just live with its short EV range. We've also toyed with the idea of the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV which has a similar range to the Prime but not nearly the 50MPG on ICE but does sit higher and is AWD but I'm not exactly sure I trust the Mitsui name vs Toyota. Decisions decisions, lots of things on the horizon but the vast majority never come to fruition and many that do don't sell in MN, the land of the large pickup and SUV crowd :roll:
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

LeftieBiker
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Posts: 13238
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:11 pm

Believe me, I complain abut our PIP all the time. Last night I was hauling 8' planks in it, and because the front passenger seat won't fold all the way forward, I had to leave planks sticking out the rear, with the hatch bungeed. The car treated me to both the interior slights staying on (with no way to turn them off) and constant loud beeping, all the way home. That did distract me from the lack of a heated steering wheel, anyway...
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

BrockWI
Posts: 795
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:28 am
Delivery Date: 28 Mar 2014
Leaf Number: 423875
Location: Green Bay, WI.
Contact: Website

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:36 pm

Yes, that 50+ on the highway is nice!. We usually use our VW diesel for that and do get 50+, but around town were lucky to get 40 and it really doesn't like driving around town. Our oldest, a senior committed to Minn so we will be going back and forth a lot starting next fall, we go enough swim meets over there or Milwaukee or Chicago as well.
3 kw solar pv - XW6048 - eight L16's
4 ton GSHP - 1 ton ASHP
2003 VW TDI 200k miles - 52 mpg lifetime
EVSE level 2 - Clipper Creek HSC-40
2013 S model with QC package Mar of 2013
lost first bar @ 72k
@90k miles - 54.71Ahr - 83.64SOH - 78.44Hx - 237GID

jjeff
Posts: 1948
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:08 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 1:11 pm
Believe me, I complain abut our PIP all the time. Last night I was hauling 8' planks in it, and because the front passenger seat won't fold all the way forward, I had to leave planks sticking out the rear, with the hatch bungeed. The car treated me to both the interior slights staying on (with no way to turn them off) and constant loud beeping, all the way home. That did distract me from the lack of a heated steering wheel, anyway...
Slide the passenger seat all the forward and then recline it all the way back till it hits the bottom cushion of the back seat :) Allows you to carry up to '11 foot material(if put carefully on the dash, be careful to not let it hit the windshield). Do it all the time, our Prius is a little hauler 8-) in fact tomorrow morning it's going to carry a 50-gallon bad water heater to a recycling event. I haven't loaded it yet but I'm pretty confident it will work......who needs a f'ing truck ;)
P.S. Leftie, were getting way OT for the Bolt thread, wonder if these posts should be moved to another thread.....or maybe this should be it :)
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

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