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Re: Chrysler Pacifica PHEV minivan

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:17 pm
by minispeed
LeftieBiker wrote:It's a shame we'll be getting it from Chrysler/Fiat.
It's a shame I kind of like it LOL.

Agree with most of the posts up top though that from a company with that record on reliability, but that also means that resale values will probably suck and year end clearance deals will be good too.

Re: Chrysler Pacifica PHEV minivan

Posted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:35 pm
by KeiJidosha
redLEAF wrote:It does have the 'magic' 30 miles of EV range; would wonder why it can be done with a big and bulky minivan but not most other makes and models (so far at least) ... of course no 'real world' testing yet...
Chrysler actually does have some experience with a plug-in hybrid minivan. Probably paved the way for the new platform Why Not a Plug-In Hybrid Minivan?

Re: Chrysler Pacifica PHEV minivan

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:45 am
by redLEAF
KeiJidosha wrote:
redLEAF wrote:It does have the 'magic' 30 miles of EV range; would wonder why it can be done with a big and bulky minivan but not most other makes and models (so far at least) ... of course no 'real world' testing yet...
Chrysler actually does have some experience with a plug-in hybrid minivan. Probably paved the way for the new platform Why Not a Plug-In Hybrid Minivan?
OK, small one-off test; only 22 miles though but perhaps the new platform saves some weight, etc. -- low 20's is what a fair amount of the latest PHEV SUV seem to get so perhaps the 30 miles claimed is very optimistic --- I would wonder how reliable these ended up being?

Re: Chrysler Pacifica PHEV minivan

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 8:37 am
by pkulak
redLEAF wrote:OK, small one-off test; only 22 miles though but perhaps the new platform saves some weight, etc. -- low 20's is what a fair amount of the latest PHEV SUV seem to get so perhaps the 30 miles claimed is very optimistic --- I would wonder how reliable these ended up being?
That early one had a 12 kWh battery. This one has 16. 30 miles seems entirely reasonable to me. If they open up the usable capacity a bit more than GM did with the first Volt, I'd say 30 is on the lower end of what you should expect.

Re: Chrysler Pacifica PHEV minivan

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:04 am
by redLEAF
pkulak wrote:
redLEAF wrote:OK, small one-off test; only 22 miles though but perhaps the new platform saves some weight, etc. -- low 20's is what a fair amount of the latest PHEV SUV seem to get so perhaps the 30 miles claimed is very optimistic --- I would wonder how reliable these ended up being?
That early one had a 12 kWh battery. This one has 16. 30 miles seems entirely reasonable to me. If they open up the usable capacity a bit more than GM did with the first Volt, I'd say 30 is on the lower end of what you should expect.
Perhaps this will be a change where you'll get MORE than the advertised EV use as you say but most of the range estimates that have been provided by car mfg's have been disappointing (i.e., 'ideal' conditions, etc.)

Re: Chrysler Pacifica PHEV minivan

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:11 am
by pkulak
redLEAF wrote:Perhaps this will be a change where you'll get MORE than the advertised EV use as you say but most of the range estimates that have been provided by car mfg's have been disappointing (i.e., 'ideal' conditions, etc.)
Really? Manufacturers just cite EPA, from what I can tell. Chevy said 35 miles for the Volt forever, but people routinely got low 40s. Chevy is saying the Bolt will do 200, but with 60 kWh it should be dead easy to get 220. Audi says 16 for the E-Tron, which seems pretty spot on. I'd wager the final EPA range will be 30-32.

Re: Chrysler Pacifica PHEV minivan

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:31 am
by GetOffYourGas
pkulak wrote:
redLEAF wrote:Perhaps this will be a change where you'll get MORE than the advertised EV use as you say but most of the range estimates that have been provided by car mfg's have been disappointing (i.e., 'ideal' conditions, etc.)
Really? Manufacturers just cite EPA, from what I can tell. Chevy said 35 miles for the Volt forever, but people routinely got low 40s. Chevy is saying the Bolt will do 200, but with 60 kWh it should be dead easy to get 220. Audi says 16 for the E-Tron, which seems pretty spot on. I'd wager the final EPA range will be 30-32.
They cite EPA now. A few years back, they cited the much easier LA4 cycle results. It sort of makes sense in that LA4 is the cycle against which the CARB credits are calculated. But it is much farther from real world than EPA 5-cycle results. It was on the LA4 cycle that the 2011-2015 Leafs got a range of 100 miles.

That said, I would be surprised if Chrysler backtracked and quoted anything other than EPA. That would really bite them when they have to print out the Monroney stickers. And with a 16kWh battery, it's likely to get 30 EPA miles.

Re: Chrysler Pacifica PHEV minivan

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:41 am
by redLEAF
pkulak wrote:
redLEAF wrote:Perhaps this will be a change where you'll get MORE than the advertised EV use as you say but most of the range estimates that have been provided by car mfg's have been disappointing (i.e., 'ideal' conditions, etc.)
Really? Manufacturers just cite EPA, from what I can tell. Chevy said 35 miles for the Volt forever, but people routinely got low 40s. Chevy is saying the Bolt will do 200, but with 60 kWh it should be dead easy to get 220. Audi says 16 for the E-Tron, which seems pretty spot on. I'd wager the final EPA range will be 30-32.
I actually attended and drove an A3 e-tron at an event Audi had in downtown Chicago a while back, even the Audi e-tron reps thought more like 10 to may be 13 miles ... with the premium they wanted for it (just like the BMW X5 40e at 13 EV miles as well) hard to justify ... a true 30 miles in 3 out of 4 seasons would be a definite plus if its real.

Re: Chrysler Pacifica PHEV minivan

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:51 pm
by LTLFTcomposite
This is a significant new offering that hopefully represents the start of a trend. As Bob Lutz pointed out, if you want customers to see value in technology that reduces fuel costs/consumption it's better applied to larger vehicles where the savings are more substantial rather than smaller cars that are already pretty economical like most of the other EV/PHEV offerings to date. Plus the larger vehicles have fat margins that can better absorb the increased costs, as opposed to the low end where price sensitive buyers hold the Volt and Leaf up against the low cost entries like Cruze, Versa, what have you.

Re: Chrysler Pacifica PHEV minivan

Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:47 pm
by minispeed
http://www.autoblog.com/2016/01/12/chry ... exclusive/

In the last paragraph they say it has a 6.6 kW onboard charger. Previous reports said it charges in 2 hrs so there's no way they have unlocked the full 16kWh of the battery if those numbers are correct.

The iMIEV I belive unlocked the full 16kWh and is EPA rated at 62. I think it would be fair to say that this minivan will be able to get more than half the range on the same 16kWh but if it will top off from empty in 2 hrs (even if that's rounding down the time, or talking about from a low SOC) I think it would be reasonable to say there's about 12-13 kWh available and also reasonable to guess that there's no more than 14 kWh.

At 12kWh available it would have to get 2.5 miles/kWh on the EPA test to get 30 miles. IIRC the leaf gets 3.9 mile/kWh on the EPA test so I think it will be able to do 30, but I also wouldn't be surprised if the EPA number is a 28 or 29.