LeftieBiker
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Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:51 pm

Electrification using fuel cells fuelled by hydrogen is a highly appealing alternative for heavy commercial vehicles such as refuse trucks. The trucks benefit from all the advantages of electrification while maintaining some of the best aspects of fossil-fuel operations, namely range, hours in service and payload.

—Hans Zackrisson, Head of Development at Renova

I agree with this. Rather than trying to develop a third, competing, huge fueling infrastructure for electric fuel cell cars, they should be focusing on large trucks - especially fleet trucks.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
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PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GRA
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Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:16 pm

GCC:
Volvo Trucks to demonstrate Volvo VNR electric trucks in California in 2019; commercialize in NA in 2020
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/1 ... volvo.html
Volvo Trucks will introduce all-electric Volvo VNR regional-haul demonstrators in California next year, operating in distribution, regional-haul and drayage operations. Sales of the VNR Electric in North America will begin in 2020.

The Volvo VNR Electric demonstration units will be based on the proven propulsion and energy storage technology currently being used in the Volvo FE Electric, which Volvo Trucks presented in May and will begin selling in Europe in 2019 (earlier post), and builds on the Volvo Group’s accumulated expertise in electrified transport solutions. Sister company Volvo Buses has sold more than 4,000 electrified buses since 2010. . . .

Introduction of the Volvo VNR Electric models are part of a partnership, known as LIGHTS (Low Impact Green Heavy Transport Solutions) between the Volvo Group, California’s South Coast Air Quality Management District (SCAQMD), and industry leaders in transportation and electrical charging infrastructure.

The California Air Resources Board (ARB) has preliminarily awarded $44.8 million to SCAQMD for the Volvo LIGHTS project. The Volvo LIGHTS project will involve 16 partners, and will transform freight operations at the facilities of two of the United States’ top trucking fleets. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:17 pm

GCC: HYON receives PILOT-E funding for two zero-emissions maritime projects using fuel cells and green H2
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/1 ... -hyon.html
HYON AS has, together with partners, been awarded grants under Norway’s PILOT-E scheme for the development and realization of two maritime projects; a high-speed ferry and a short-sea freighter. The ambitions of both projects are to realize zero-emission propulsion via fuel cells using cost-efficient hydrogen produced from electrolysis based on renewable energy. . . .

The projects are:
  • Project ZEFF – Zero Emission Fast Ferry. The vessel will utilize foils that lift the vessel out of the water and will have cruise speed between 25 and 45 knots. The craft will operate without CO2, NOx, SOx and particulate matter emissions. Propulsion power will be produced by hydrogen fuel cells and batteries. The vessel will have approximately 45% lower energy consumption than current vessels per passenger-km, and can be made with varying size and capacity, from 100 to 300 passengers.

    Project SeaShuttle – Zero emission coastal freighter with automated cargo handling. The project goal is to develop and realize profitable emission-free container transport for short-sea market based on hydrogen fuel cells. The ship concept will be moving transport of cargo from road to sea and will include autonomous cargo handling in achieving cost-effectiveness. . . .
The PILOT-E scheme provides funding for Norwegian trade and industry and has been launched as a collaboration between the Research Council, Innovation Norway and Enova. Final agreements for the grant will be signed early 2019, upon which the project will commence immediately thereafter. . . .

Zero-emissions maritime vessels are expected to be in high demand—both within maritime segments where first-generation solutions, such as zero-emissions ferries, are already available, and in new segments, such as fast-ferries—and within the offshore industry and fisheries/aquaculture. With regard to ferries, about 70 ferry routes involving 100 ferries will be put out to tender and set into operation in the near future. Many of these tenders will specify requirements regarding reduced greenhouse gas emissions. This means that there is a large, growing market for the solutions that receive support under the PILOT-E scheme.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 10852
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:16 pm

GCC:
Porsche commissions MAN electric eTruck for green logistics at Stuttgart-Zuffenhausen
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/1 ... rsche.html
. . . The battery-powered eTruck is a MAN eTGM 18.360 4x2 LL. The type designation indicates that the truck is a semitrailer tractor and belongs to the 18-tonne weight class, while the overall combination with a semitrailer is designed for a total weight of 32 tonnes in delivery traffic.

The 360 figure represents the horsepower of the 265 kW eTruck. Lithium-ion batteries with a storage capacity of 149 kWh are used to store energy, making it possible for the eTruck to cover a range of 130 kilometers (81 miles). . . .

The electric commercial vehicle will be used for deliveries on the almost 19-kilometer (12-mile) route between the Porsche factory in Stuttgart-Zuffenhausen and the Freiberg am Neckar site operated by its logistics partner LGI. Using the eTruck avoids more than 30,000 kilograms of CO2 that would otherwise be emitted each year.

The charging station for the electric truck is also located in Freiberg. It is the first model using the new high-power charging infrastructure developed by Porsche Engineering for the future high-power charging network that will be operated by the Ionity joint venture.

The maximum charging capacity for this logistical application is 150 kW, which is sufficient to charge the electric truck to travel a further 100 kilometers in 45 minutes. As at all Porsche charging stations, the vehicle is charged using natural power, i.e. green energy from renewable sources.

In producing the eTruck for Porsche, MAN passes another milestone on its e-mobility roadmap, according to which the first small series of the MAN eTGM is planned from early 2019. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 10852
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:20 pm

GCC:
Toyota and Kenworth collaborate to develop 10 hydrogen fuel-cell T680 trucks as part of ZANZEFF grant
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/0 ... worth.html
Kenworth Truck Company and Toyota Motor North America are collaborating to develop 10 zero-emission Kenworth T680s powered by Toyota hydrogen fuel cell electric powertrains.

This collaboration is part of a $41-million Zero and Near-Zero Emissions Freight Facilities (ZANZEFF) grant preliminarily awarded by the California Air Resources Board (CARB), with the Port of Los Angeles as the prime applicant. (Earlier post.)

The grant monies are part of a larger $82-million program that will put fuel cell electric tractors, hydrogen fueling infrastructure, and zero emissions cargo handling equipment into operation in the ports and Los Angeles basin in 2020.

The Kenworth T680s will transport cargo across the Los Angeles basin and to inland cities such as Ontario and San Bernardino . . . thanks to their fully electric hydrogen fuel cell powertrain integrations co-developed by Kenworth and Toyota. . . .

The hydrogen fuel cell electric powered Kenworth T680s will have a range of more than 300 miles under normal drayage operating conditions.

The program will also fund foundational hydrogen fuel infrastructure, including two new fueling stations that, subject to a final investment decision by Equilon Enterprises LLC (dba Shell Oil Products US), will be developed through Shell Oil Products US, to support the operation of the fuel cell electric trucks in Southern California.
Also GCC:
Alstom and Eversholt Rail unveil a new hydrogen train design for the UK
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/0 ... reeze.html
. . . The train, codenamed Breeze, will be a conversion of existing Class 321 trains, reengineering some of the UK’s most reliable rolling stock. These trains could run across the UK as early as 2022.

The rolling stock conversion will be carried out by Alstom, working in partnership with Eversholt Rail and building upon an established business relationship spanning over 15 years and across multiple rolling stock fleets. This proven and reliable Class 321 is an excellent fit in terms of characteristics, fleet size and availability for conversion to a Hydrogen Multiple Unit (HMU).

Alstom and Eversholt Rail are working closely with industry stakeholders to develop the business cases and evaluate detailed introduction plans for fleets of these innovative trains and the associated fuelling infrastructure. Alstom and Eversholt Rail also confirmed that their initial, comprehensive engineering study is now complete, and the train design concept finalized.

The technical solution defined is the first to allow a hydrogen train to fit within the standard UK loading gauge (maximum height and width for railway vehicles and their loads to ensure safe passage through bridges, tunnels and other structures), and it will also create more space for passengers than the trains they are intended to replace. . . .

The news follows the introduction in September of Alstom’s Coradia iLint hydrogen trains in Germany (earlier post), where they now operate in regular passenger service on a daily basis. There is growing interest in Alstom’s hydrogen technology worldwide, including in France where the President of the Occitanie region, Carole Delga, recently announced a proposal to introduce the technology on trains there. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 10852
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:47 pm

GCC:
DOE: 1 fuel cell bus in US has exceeded the DOE/DOT target of 25,000 hours; more getting close
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/0 ... -fceb.html
One fuel cell electric bus (FCEB) operating in the United States has surpassed 29,000 hours of drive time and nine buses have exceeded 20,000 hours without major repairs or replacement of the fuel cell stack, according to the US Department of Energy (DOE). This is comparable to the life expectancy of a diesel engine in a transit bus.

Diesel buses have an engine that is sometimes rebuilt halfway through its usable life at 6 years/250,000 miles on average. The National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) has collected data on fuel cell buses for more than 8 years. . . .
Direct link:
Fuel Cell Buses in U.S. Transit Fleets:
Current Status 2018
https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy19osti/72208.pdf
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 10852
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:16 pm

GCC:
DHL to roll out 63 Workhorse electric delivery vans in US; first 30 in SF Bay area
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/0 ... 5-dhl.html
. . . Capable of running up to 100 miles on a charge, the vans have ultra-low floors to reduce physical stress on workers’ knees and back, and a high roof design that maximizes cargo space in a small footprint (1,008 cubic feet of cargo capacity).

The NGEN-1000 GEN 1000 supports up to 6,000 lbs. payload with 1,000 ft3 cargo space. The all-wheel drive van gets 50 MPGe and delivers 100 miles all-electric range. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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RegGuheert
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Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:11 pm

RegGuheert on February 1, 2018 wrote:128 stations * 32 tonnes/station/day * 30 days/month * 1000 kg/tonne * 53 kWh/kg * $0.10/kWh = $651 MILLION per month, JUST for electricity.

But how much revenue will they collect per month from these 8000 trucks?
8000 trucks * 5000 $/truck/month = $40 MILLION per month

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

They won't be able to shut the doors to this place fast enough!
I wrote that just over a year ago. Today, I see this: Electrek: Nikola Motors announces all-electric version of the semi truck as Tesla Semi changes the game:
Electrek wrote:Nikola Motors, an electric and hydrogen truck startup, is announcing new all-electric versions of their semi trucks in order to compete with Tesla Semi.
But don't expect Nikola to tell us that the hydrogen idea was an immensely stupid one:
Electrek wrote:The company says that this announcement does not affect its plan for hydrogen stations and they plan hydrogen versions of their trucks.
Electrek has a similar take to mine on that aspect of the topic:
Electrek wrote:Now they are still saying that the hydrogen fuel cell version is going to be an option, but I think this is a just a slow phase-out of the plan – though I’m sure Nikola will not admit that.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

SageBrush
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Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:49 am

RegGuheert wrote:
RegGuheert on February 1, 2018 wrote:128 stations * 32 tonnes/station/day * 30 days/month * 1000 kg/tonne * 53 kWh/kg * $0.10/kWh = $651 MILLION per month, JUST for electricity.

But how much revenue will they collect per month from these 8000 trucks?
8000 trucks * 5000 $/truck/month = $40 MILLION per month


They won't be able to shut the doors to this place fast enough!
I wrote that just over a year ago.
Arithmetic errors.

Daily hydrogen would be 128 stations * 32,000 Kg Hydrogen a day per station = 4096000 Kg per day hydrogen
Dispersed over 8000 trucks would be 512 Kg hydrogen per day.
Fuel cells are ~ 60% efficient and a Kg of H2 has 33 kWh so 512*33*0.6 kWh = 10137.6 kWh per truck daily
An electric truck like the Nikola is reported to use 2.2 kWh a mile so the H2 production would supply 10,137.6/2.2 = 4608 miles a day per truck
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

User avatar
RegGuheert
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Re: AFV Truck/Commercial Vehicle and (non-BEV) Bus thread

Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:44 pm

SageBrush wrote:
RegGuheert wrote:
RegGuheert on February 1, 2018 wrote:128 stations * 32 tonnes/station/day * 30 days/month * 1000 kg/tonne * 53 kWh/kg * $0.10/kWh = $651 MILLION per month, JUST for electricity.

But how much revenue will they collect per month from these 8000 trucks?
8000 trucks * 5000 $/truck/month = $40 MILLION per month


They won't be able to shut the doors to this place fast enough!
I wrote that just over a year ago.
Arithmetic errors.
You're right. The $651 MILLION per month JUST for electricity should read $64 MILLION per month JUST for electricity:

8000 trucks * 50 kg/truck/day * 30 days/month * 53 kWh/kg * $0.10/kWh = $63.6M/month

The conclusions are the same: the cost of the electricity to operate the trucks is much more than their entire revenue stream.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

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