Uh huh, and when exactly will AWD be available in the Prius? As it is, we've finally (2+ years late) gotten the first relatively affordable AWD PHEV now that the Outlander is arriving, and we still don't have an affordable AWD BEV.RegGuheert wrote:RegGuheert wrote:They fill a niche for those who only care about utility and put their own needs far above those of the environment.You've made my point exactly:GRA wrote:As to what Subaru people care about, utility, safety, reliability and good gas mileage (preferably zero emissions) given AWD, at a moderate cost.
2018 Toyota Prius: 52 MPG
2018 Subaru Forester AWD: 28 MPG
Subarus use nearly twice as much fuel all the time for the 0.5% of the time when people want to entertain themselves.
https://insideevs.com/subaru-phev-launc ... -bev-2021/Subaru PHEV to Launch In U.S. This Year, BEV In 2021
Other articles indicate the car will be built in Japan and shipped to the U.S., which probably means it will be either a Cross-Trek or Forester (the latter being redesigned for 2019), as Subaru makes all their other models which are sold here in their plant in Indiana, and that availability will be restricted to CARB states.. . . In order to get the PHEV to market quickly, Subaru will use the Toyota Prius Prime’s system as a platform. The exec told Automotive News:
Interestingly, nonetheless, Subaru will still use its longitudinal “boxer” engine configuration, in tandem with the electric motor and battery pack. Whereas, the Prime has a traditionally mounted engine setup. . . .
- “For our plug-in hybrid to be introduced this year, we have used Toyota’s technologies as much as possible.
We can’t engage in a large-scale development.”
I would say that the Prius Prime's system is a LOT more than a "battery pack and motor".GRA wrote:While it will use the Prime's 8.8 kWh battery pack and motor, I expect it will drive like a Subaru and not a Prius.
As the article noted Toyota owns 17% of Subaru, and they've previously collaborated - the BRZ and FR-S were both designed by Subaru, with each company doing their own chassis tweaking and with some minor differences in the interiors and exterior cosmetics. As this article says, Toyota is involved with Mazda and Denso to use the tech:RegGuheert wrote:I would say that the Prius Prime's system is a LOT more than a "battery pack and motor".GRA wrote:While it will use the Prime's 8.8 kWh battery pack and motor, I expect it will drive like a Subaru and not a Prius.
I just watched a teardown of the Toyota Prius/Prime transaxle the other day:
My impression is that this fourth-generation transaxle is very refined. There is a lot of technology in that box which would be hard to match in a new design: thermal design, lubrication, motor design, controls design, packaging, manufacturability, reliability, performance, weight, and much more.
So what is in this for Toyota to license this critical piece of technology to a company which "can’t engage in a large-scale development"? Do they have a relationship beyond that of a supplier/integrator relationship?
https://insideevs.com/toyota-mazda-denso-team-work-evs/ Subaru joined later.Toyota, Mazda And Denso Team Up To Work On EVs
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... -next-yearReport: Subaru may use Evoltis name for new plug-in hybrid coming next year
Whichever platform they offer it on, I hope they have a re-think on the name. "Evoltis" seems too close to "revolting" , as well as being the sort of completely made-up word that too many Japanese auto manufacturers seem to take pleasure in using for their car names. Still, if the car is good enough people will live with the name.Subaru buyers would seem to be the perfect group to be interested in buying plug-in cars: They love the outdoors and want to enjoy it unspoiled. Yet the company has lagged in producing anything electric. Its only hybrid so far, the first-generation Crosstrek Hybrid, barely registered on the green-car scene. Behind the wheel, it barely registered as a hybrid; the gas engine had to run to accomplish almost anything.
Now in a trademark filing, first reported by Car and Driver, the company has potentially registered a name for its first plug-in product: Evoltis. A spokeswoman for Subaru declined to comment on the filing or the potential name. The Evoltis may be a plug-in hybrid using technology from the Toyota Prius Prime and could go on sale as early as 2019. The Evoltis also may be based on the recently updated Crosstrek. . . .
8.8 kWh in a Subaru is not going to be anywhere near the 25 mile EV range it is in a Prius Prime.GRA wrote: While it will use the Prime's 8.8 kWh battery pack and motor, I expect it will drive like a Subaru and not a Prius.
I think 20 miles AER will be acceptable (covers the round-trip commute of ~50% of U.S. drivers), and it should be able to make that. While more would be preferable, it's an inevitable trade-off between cost, weight, efficiency (on ICE and battery) and interior volume. It's bad enough that the Crosstrek hybrid lost its (compact) spare tire, as many Subaru owners are loathe to accept that as we're often far off the beaten track, and for me personally and I imagine many others we want a full size spare; that's one reason I chose the Forester over the Outback and Legacy wagons, as it came with a full size spare that fit in the well. I dread the thought of having to swap tires front to rear in snow if I need chains.8.8 kWh in a Subaru is not going to be anywhere near the 25 mile EV range it is in a Prius Prime.GRA wrote: While it will use the Prime's 8.8 kWh battery pack and motor, I expect it will drive like a Subaru and not a Prius.
I hope Subaru has a wildly successful first PHEV (and truth be told, I admire that company a lot), but I am not feeling optimistic.
Are you sure about that ?GRA wrote:the Prime wouldn't work for me owing to its lack of a true hold mode - I want to be able to control when and where to emit as above.