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Re: IEVS: Volkswagen: Our Electric Car Batteries Last The Life Of The Car

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 2:20 pm
by RonDawg
smkettner wrote:I expect 20 years and 300,000 miles retaining 80% capacity before "lasts life of the car" statement is used.
Many modern ICEVs can hardly make it to half that time before ending up in a junkyard, particularly if it has a CVT.

Re: IEVS: Volkswagen: Our Electric Car Batteries Last The Life Of The Car

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 3:54 pm
by smkettner
RonDawg wrote:
smkettner wrote:I expect 20 years and 300,000 miles retaining 80% capacity before "lasts life of the car" statement is used.
Many modern ICEVs can hardly make it to half that time before ending up in a junkyard, particularly if it has a CVT.
I would not buy those cars either.

No CVT or any transmission is a definite plus for EVs. My 2001 F150 transmission (4r70w) still going great at 200,000 miles.

Re: IEVS: Volkswagen: Our Electric Car Batteries Last The Life Of The Car

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 4:41 pm
by RonDawg
More and more ICEV and hybrid cars are getting CVT's as time passes. So you may not have much choice in the future if you don't want a CVT, and even going to a manual is increasingly becoming difficult in the US.

But even if it doesn't...modern cars are not designed to be easily and cheaply repaired. The reason many are going to junkyards in surprisingly good shape otherwise is because something is broken and costs more to fix than the car is worth.

Re: IEVS: Volkswagen: Our Electric Car Batteries Last The Life Of The Car

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 6:30 pm
by WetEV
smkettner wrote:I expect 20 years and 300,000 miles retaining 80% capacity before "lasts life of the car" statement is used.
Why not 99 years and 5 billion miles retaining 99.99% of capacity? At minimum, of course.

Re: IEVS: Volkswagen: Our Electric Car Batteries Last The Life Of The Car

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 6:52 pm
by Nubo
Regular miles, or "Phoenix miles"(tm)? :lol:

Re: IEVS: Volkswagen: Our Electric Car Batteries Last The Life Of The Car

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 8:33 pm
by WetEV
Nubo wrote:Regular miles, or "Phoenix miles"(tm)? :lol:
Or we might ask if a battery that far outlives the car is a realistic requirement. Might it be more economical to produce a battery that lasts just about a long as the rest of the car? Sometimes longer, sometimes not?

Or a kingpin, for that matter. Ask Henry Ford.

Re: IEVS: Volkswagen: Our Electric Car Batteries Last The Life Of The Car

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 8:36 pm
by smkettner
WetEV wrote:
smkettner wrote:I expect 20 years and 300,000 miles retaining 80% capacity before "lasts life of the car" statement is used.
Why not 99 years and 5 billion miles retaining 99.99% of capacity? At minimum, of course.
Because I am just looking for something comparable.

What is your point except to troll the issue?

Re: IEVS: Volkswagen: Our Electric Car Batteries Last The Life Of The Car

Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 8:44 pm
by WetEV
smkettner wrote:
WetEV wrote:
smkettner wrote:I expect 20 years and 300,000 miles retaining 80% capacity before "lasts life of the car" statement is used.
Why not 99 years and 5 billion miles retaining 99.99% of capacity? At minimum, of course.
Because I am just looking for something comparable.

What is your point except to troll the issue?
Comparable to what?

Economics. Making batteries that far outlive the car doesn't add value, and adds cost.

Re: IEVS: Volkswagen: Our Electric Car Batteries Last The Life Of The Car

Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 2:24 am
by SageBrush
WetEV wrote: Comparable to what?
He said a reliable ICE, which to him (and me) is 20 years and ~ 300k miles.
That is what I expect from my Tesla.

A LEAF is more along the lines of 5 - 8 years although cool climates do better.

Re: IEVS: Volkswagen: Our Electric Car Batteries Last The Life Of The Car

Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 9:55 am
by WetEV
SageBrush wrote:
WetEV wrote: Comparable to what?
He said a reliable ICE, which to him (and me) is 20 years and ~ 300k miles.
That is what I expect from my Tesla.

A LEAF is more along the lines of 5 - 8 years although cool climates do better.
Yes, the 2011 to early 2013 LEAF would be along the lines of 5 - 8 years or more. And of course, Nissan hasn't made any newer LEAFs since then, with improved chemistry and larger batteries. Right. Larger batteries will extend useful life, even if they lose capacity as the same percentage rate as a smaller battery.

A Tesla isn't a good bet, due to other reliability issues. Consumer Reports rates Model X as the worst, Model 3 as below average. Model S 2013, 2015 and 2016 are the best years for the Model S, with average reliability.
CR wrote:Model X SUV. Filled with enough gee-whiz gizmos to give William Gibson a thrill, the X seemingly sacrifices practicality and pragmatism for the purpose of showboating.
Nissan LEAF is rated at average reliability, however some years are higher and lower. 2016 is the worst, 2017, 2013 and 2011 are the best.

If 20+ year reliability is your goal, you shouldn't buy an electric car. Yet.