GRA
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IEVS: Tesla Model 3 & Audi e-tron Charging At IONITY Side By Side: Video

Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:20 pm

https://insideevs.com/news/354195/tesla ... -charging/
Bjorn Nyland tested them. Short version, M3 charges at higher rate up to about 50% SoC, but e-Tron holds high rate throughout with much less taper, and was charging more than twice as fast as M3 at/above 80% SoC. I believe this sort of charging with little taper will be very important for road trips and mass-market acceptance, even though it employs a brute force approach by oversizing the battery. The Model 3 is of course, much more efficient than the e-Tron, and the article's author hopes that the test is repeated with a Mod X instead of M3, as that's a much more comparable vehicle to the e-Tron than the Model 3 is. As Bjorn happens to own a Model X. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

SageBrush
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Re: IEVS: Tesla Model 3 & Audi e-tron Charging At IONITY Side By Side: Video

Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:55 pm

Superchargers are spaced at ~ 150 mile intervals (although terrain is taken into account.) My driving at 65 - 70 mph works out to 12 minute stops if they were Ionity; a bit more for V2 Superchargers, a bit less for V3 Superchargers.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: IEVS: Tesla Model 3 & Audi e-tron Charging At IONITY Side By Side: Video

Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:43 pm

SageBrush wrote:Superchargers are spaced at ~ 150 mile intervals (although terrain is taken into account.) My driving at 65 - 70 mph works out to 12 minute stops if they were Ionity; a bit more for V2 Superchargers, a bit less for V3 Superchargers.
If you were driving the interstates at the 75 or 80 mph speed limit (or 5 miles above, which is the typical free-flowing traffic speed) in most western states, what kind of stop length would you have to do those 150 mile +- legs?
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

SageBrush
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Re: IEVS: Tesla Model 3 & Audi e-tron Charging At IONITY Side By Side: Video

Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:32 am

GRA wrote:
SageBrush wrote:Superchargers are spaced at ~ 150 mile intervals (although terrain is taken into account.) My driving at 65 - 70 mph works out to 12 minute stops if they were Ionity; a bit more for V2 Superchargers, a bit less for V3 Superchargers.
If you were driving the interstates at ... ...
Easy enough for you to figure out all by yourself. The CdA of my car is 0.5 m*m, ~ 140 kW marginal charging rate in the 55% -- 65% SoC band
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

metricus
Posts: 94
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Leaf Number: 307046
Location: Reading, PA

Re: IEVS: Tesla Model 3 & Audi e-tron Charging At IONITY Side By Side: Video

Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:16 am

I'm going to jump in and say that since it appears that Tesla has started to make Model 3 available for lease and just glancing at the lease numbers there is no doubt in my mind that the Leaf and Leaf Plus are not worth their price tag. By far.

As for Audi I would definitely hold on until they blow up a few cars and work out their bugs.

Stoaty
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Re: IEVS: Tesla Model 3 & Audi e-tron Charging At IONITY Side By Side: Video

Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:17 am

Yes, but you forgot the most important line in the story--model 3 increases range faster than any other BEV. So it is still ahead in amount of time needed for charging.
2011 Leaf with 62,000 miles given to Nephew
2013 Tesla Model S85 with 251 miles rated range at full charge
Leaf Spy Manual
Battery Aging Model Spreadsheet

SageBrush
Posts: 4754
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: IEVS: Tesla Model 3 & Audi e-tron Charging At IONITY Side By Side: Video

Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:50 pm

A graph I made and posted on TMC (original data from a Bjorn Nyland video):

Image
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GRA
Posts: 10888
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: IEVS: Tesla Model 3 & Audi e-tron Charging At IONITY Side By Side: Video

Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:15 pm

Useful graph, but since the two vehicles are completely different types of car with little likelihood of cross-shopping, we still need to see the Mod. X vs. e-Tron.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

SageBrush
Posts: 4754
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: IEVS: Tesla Model 3 & Audi e-tron Charging At IONITY Side By Side: Video

Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:39 pm

^^ I think that the Model Y will be a close comparison vehicle (though not in price. The e-tron is *expensive*.) Take the Model 3 graph and discount about 10%.

That aside, the graph was originally produced to expose the fallacy of Audi's claims that ~ 150 kW charging with a late taper is superior to the Tesla network. Look at the kWh added vs time
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GRA
Posts: 10888
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: IEVS: Tesla Model 3 & Audi e-tron Charging At IONITY Side By Side: Video

Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:56 pm

SageBrush wrote:^^ I think that the Model Y will be a close comparison vehicle (though not in price. The e-tron is *expensive*.) Take the Model 3 graph and discount about 10%.

That aside, the graph was originally produced to expose the fallacy of Audi's claims that ~ 150 kW charging with a late taper is superior to the Tesla network. Look at the kWh added vs time
Just depends on your needs. I happen to think that for the average consumer, the "no knowledge necessary" approach that Audi is using is the way to go, as it allows them to treat the battery like it was a gas tank - just fill it up every time and take it down to your reserve.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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