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Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:50 pm
by TonyWilliams
So, how do we know these are "B" cells, and more importantly, how do we even know they are the same 3100ma cells that Model S uses?

Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:01 pm
by palmermd
TonyWilliams wrote:So, how do we know these are "B" cells, and more importantly, how do we even know they are the same 3100ma cells that Model S uses?
I'm not sure there is such a thing as a "B" cell. It is a "B" pack on the Model S. For all we know A,B,C and D packs all use the same cells. Some theorize that the B and newer packs have cell improvements, but other doubt that and just think is is some other limitation related to pack construction. Personally I think they may both be correct. I doubt there have been 4+ chemistry changes in the pack, so at least some of the changes are probably due to just improvements in pack construction. Some are potentially performance improvements, but I'd bet some are just improvements that shorten the time to construct a pack. Tesla is working hard to improve the production line, and the speed of these pack builds is one of the main components.

As far as knowing what is inside a Tesla Model S pack versus what is inside a Rav4EV pack, you'd have to open the packs remove some cells and test them. Or you could ask Tesla if they were willing to give an answer. I doubt they would tell you (not specifically you, but anyone), and not many folks willing to have the pack opened and then have individual cells removed for testing and comparison.

Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:04 pm
by TonyWilliams
Here's my pack, Tesla part number 1004200-02-E

The newest Tesla Model S serial number cars have 1014114-00-D




Image



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Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:46 pm
by palmermd
With it being a totally different part number, I don't think you have any way to compare. Dates are about the only thing you have to go on. I suspect that any pack built on a specific date would have the same cells, but even that could be misleading because they may have put aside some cells for the RAV and then did not build them into a pack until a later date.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showwiki ... tery+table" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The above is a list of reported pack data from TMC. It really does not help the Rav guys know anything really. The only way to know anything would be testing as far as I know, unless you can pry the data out of someone at Tesla.

Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:23 pm
by TonyWilliams
Ok, so all this confirms what I expected. We don't know anything more about the Rav4 pack.

At 860 pounds for 45-48kWh, it is well more than double the weight of the 85kWh battery in a Model S, therefore as I've always suspected, it likely doesn't have the 3100ma cells.

I've guessed either the Roadster 2200ma (since the prototypes used that cell) or a cheaper 2900ma.

Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:24 pm
by fooljoe
Tony -

It's probably a pointless exercise, but if you've still got both a 2012 and a 2014 Rav, did you check if that part number varies at all between them? It wouldn't really prove anything if they're different, but if they're the same that might indicate there hasn't been a cell change.

Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:09 pm
by TonyWilliams
fooljoe wrote:Tony -

It's probably a pointless exercise, but if you've still got both a 2012 and a 2014 Rav, did you check if that part number varies at all between them? It wouldn't really prove anything if they're different, but if they're the same that might indicate there hasn't been a cell change.

I've yet to see the 2014 Rav4 EV. I bought it, sight unseen, from Dianne and I haven't been in the USA since.

Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:43 pm
by pchilds
TonyWilliams wrote:
fooljoe wrote:Tony -

It's probably a pointless exercise, but if you've still got both a 2012 and a 2014 Rav, did you check if that part number varies at all between them? It wouldn't really prove anything if they're different, but if they're the same that might indicate there hasn't been a cell change.

I've yet to see the 2014 Rav4 EV. I bought it, sight unseen, from Dianne and I haven't been in the USA since.
I would be glad to break it in for you, if you need my help, let me know. 8-)

Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:50 pm
by lion
Since Toyota is printing Tony's forum threads, I want to use this opportunity to BEG Toyota to PLEASE release the RAV4 EV to other states :( I really need a matching RAV4 EV to go with my RAV4 V6!

We now return to your regularly scheduled programming ;)

Re: Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:15 pm
by TomT
It won't happen. The RAV4EV is strictly a compliance vehicle and they are not going to sell it anywhere where they can not get at least as many credits as in California...
lion wrote:Since Toyota is printing Tony's forum threads, I want to use this opportunity to BEG Toyota to PLEASE release the RAV4 EV to other states :( I really need a matching RAV4 EV to go with my RAV4 V6! We now return to your regularly scheduled programming ;)