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EVDRIVER
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Re: Ford Opens Ordering for Electric Focus : $39,995

Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:18 am

Spies wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:You mean like the LEAF platform modification/conversion.
So what term should be used for the Leaf and Focus? Are you saying the Leaf and Focus are the same as a 'platform modification/conversion'? I mean at what point does one draw the line?

I would call the Focus a factory conversion plain and simple. The LEAF is more of a hybrid conversion with heavy platform modification, not anything near a group-up EV design as that is a Tesla Model S. I wish Ford would do what Nissan did but with the Fiesta, that would be a nice city EV.

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evnow
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Re: Ford Opens Ordering for Electric Focus : $39,995

Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:32 am

EVDRIVER wrote:The LEAF is more of a hybrid conversion with heavy platform modification, not anything near a group-up EV design as that is a Tesla Model S.
We have been through this before. All established auto majors will reuse what they can. They would have to be stupid not to. Ofcourse Tesla had nothing - so they had to start from scratch.
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Re: Ford Opens Ordering for Electric Focus : $39,995

Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:37 am

evnow wrote:
charlestonleafer wrote:They might actually sell a decent amount. I think that Ford has a lot of die hard fans that are willing to spend a little extra to "keep it in the Brand". GM had a lot of those followers too, but I believe the bailout really took a toll on their fan base. I'd still rather have a base model leaf for about 5k less. I will admit, the Ford Sync system is pretty nice, but not 5k nice.
I doubt there are too many of those who would buy an EV. The tiny trunc alone will scare away most of the families.

Overall the pricing tells me - Ford is looking to sell a small # of FEVs a year. This is unfortunate - but given the costs involved, not surprised by this price. Infact this is what I chose in the poll.
And even at $40k, I expect Ford will take a substantial loss on each sale.

The cost advantage of mass production requires mass.

Nissan is probably currently selling each LEAF at well below cost, even building 40,000(?) a year, and will only become profitable when US production ramps up.
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Herm
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Re: Ford Opens Ordering for Electric Focus : $39,995

Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:48 am

EVDRIVER wrote:The LEAF is more of a hybrid conversion with heavy platform modification, not anything near a group-up EV design as that is a Tesla Model S.
What would you do different had it been a ground up BEV?.. assuming a 5 door design of similar size?.

Perhaps a thinner but larger battery pack that covered the whole floorpan.. giving up maybe an inch or two of headroom but perhaps reclining the seats more. An independent rear suspension system would allow the pack to move back a lot further without impacting headroom.. perhaps the cost is not prohibitive for IRS.

EricBayArea
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Re: Ford Opens Ordering for Electric Focus : $39,995

Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:54 am

I'm glad to see another car out on the market. However, if I was in the market with $40k to spend, I may try to stretch myself to $50 and get a Model S. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the leather pattern is pretty horrendous. Doesn't the Volt come with 2-tone leather in bright colors?

Is it just my inability to browse their site or does it really not talk about features and mileage? I can't find where it talks about heated seats, climate control (1 zone vs 2 zone), RANGE, etc?

By the way, I got excited when I thought they got rid of that silly grille when I saw the home screen of the "build" site:
Image

Then I got less excited when I clicked on it and realized that they are using that grille... must have been a slip on the images:
Image
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mitch672
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Re: Ford Opens Ordering for Electric Focus : $39,995

Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:06 am

EricBayArea wrote: I'm glad to see another car out on the market. However, if I was in the market with $40k to spend, I may try to stretch myself to $50 and get a Model S.
The $50K Model S doesn't really exist. The base model is $57K or so, then you take the $7,500 tax credit to get to $49,500. Also, they won't be making ANY of that model until at least 2013 or 2014, its all 300 mile, $80-90K "Signature Edition", then 300 mile Standard editions for at least a year or two, and they don't expect to start production until mid 2012. Also, they have not finallized the pricing, and its only going in 1 direciton, and thats up. There will be all kinds of "options" that will really be required, thats why the real price for a Model S you can actually BUY will be in the $80-90K range.

Also the Focus EV is made by a third party, thats part of the reason its so pricey, they really don't expect to sell many of them, and they don't really seem serious, the way Nissan is. I would expect this to be a basic CARB play, in the end.
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JustinC
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Re: Ford Opens Ordering for Electric Focus : $39,995

Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:19 am

EricBayArea wrote:Is it just my inability to browse their site or does it really not talk about features and mileage? I can't find where it talks about heated seats, climate control (1 zone vs 2 zone), RANGE, etc?
Yeah, I can't find any specs on their site either. From what I've read elsewhere, it has the standard 100 mile range.

I have to say it looks better than a LEAF, and it's American. Add to that the faster charger I think it's worth the extra cash.

Unfortunate about that funky pattern on the leather seats though. WTF?

I wonder what they would give me on trade-in for the LEAF? Just curious.
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TonyWilliams
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Re: Ford Opens Ordering for Electric Focus : $39,995

Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:32 am

evnow wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:The LEAF is more of a hybrid conversion with heavy platform modification, not anything near a group-up EV design as that is a Tesla Model S.
We have been through this before. All established auto majors will reuse what they can. They would have to be stupid not to. Ofcourse Tesla had nothing - so they had to start from scratch.
Well.... isn't the Tesla still Lotus designs (both the Roadster and S) ?

I thought the bare chassis was sent from England to California.

edatoakrun
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Re: Ford Opens Ordering for Electric Focus : $39,995

Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:33 am

If they built the focus below, at about a 20%, rather than 100% BEV conversion price premium over the "standard" Focus ICEV, It could sell very well. The small displacement ICE hybrid will likely be the future (and last holdout against the BEV, in the future fleet conversion) rather than the Volt or Prius hybrid model, IMO.
The HyBoost demonstrator being developed by Ricardo and its partners (earlier post) is achieving comparable performance to the conventional 2.0L version of its vehicle (a 2009 Ford Focus) but with fuel economy and CO2 emissions approaching those of a Prius, according to David Boggs, Ricardo Technical Specialist, Engines, in a presentation at the recent 2011 Directions in Engine-Efficiency and Emissions Research Conference (DEER) hosted by the Department of Energy in Detroit.

HyBoost achieves this by combining aggressive 50% downsizing of the engine with an electric supercharger for transient low-speed performance, and a micro-hybrid stop-start and energy recuperation systems, Boggs said.

Downsizing the 2.0-liter base engine to a 1-liter, boosted direct injection (EcoBoost) engine delivers up to a 25% reduction. The stop-start system with 6 kW of regenerative braking capability delivers another 10%. Cooled EGR, revised turbo match and the e-boost at the low end provides another 6% reduction, while the use of taller gears and a gearshift advisor chips in another 7% reduction. The HyBoost demonstrator comes in at around 99 g CO2/km but with further system optimization, Boggs said, they can get it down to around 89—the same rating as the Prius...
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TonyWilliams
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Re: Ford Opens Ordering for Electric Focus : $39,995

Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:38 am

Herm wrote:What would you do different had it been a ground up BEV?.. assuming a 5 door design of similar size?.

Perhaps a thinner but larger battery pack that covered the whole floorpan.. giving up maybe an inch or two of headroom but perhaps reclining the seats more. An independent rear suspension system would allow the pack to move back a lot further without impacting headroom.. perhaps the cost is not prohibitive for IRS.
Using the Versa rear suspension takes up TONS of room that didn't matter in a gas burner. Heck, the charger and fancy parking brake capacitor set could be in that space, and leave tons more trunk room.

I'm 6'2", and I really appreciate the headroom, but coming in at .29 drag when a Prius is .25 was a mistake.

But, if you're just going to advertise 100 miles of range, why bother wasting valuable resources designing the car to actually do that? Grab stuff off the shelf (Versa) and pump 'em out. (ok, I'm being quite glib, and recognize that lots of work, money and brand clout went into the LEAF; thanks for the efforts!)

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