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EVDRIVER
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:42 am

GRA wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:32 pm
Gee, they finally decided to put one in Tusayan, only four or is it five years after I suggested the need for one there. I mean, it's only the southern gateway to the South Rim of the Grand Canyon with its 6+ million visitors a year, and has a Holiday Inn Express which Tesla has had an SC relationship with. Apparently they're putting it at the Grand Hotel across the street instead (stayed there once), but whatever works. Still no sign of Kayenta, Kalispell, or Ashfork/Seligman/Williams or I-15 north of I-90 in Montana, and for some bizarre reason Tesla has SCs under construction in Bismarck and Dickenson ND, but still nothing on I-29 through Fargo up to Winnipeg, despite the latter metro area having a greater population than the entire state of ND, and Fargo being the largest city in ND. At least they finally got the Trans-Canada Hwy going, albeit two years late.
Do you think companies get to force property owners and permit approval to their own timelines? Many of the locations are held up for years as a result of negotiations. red tape, and technical issues. When you work in an industry related to doing this type of work even on the residential side you would know it is a complete nightmare and nothing goes as planned even at the most conservative estimates. The good thing is the private for-profit networks have covered the US very well with their single-focus business models with no distraction of building cars.

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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:52 am

GRA wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:32 pm
Gee, they finally decided to put one in Tusayan, only four or is it five years after I suggested the need for one there.
The next time I lunch with Elon, I'll mention he should take the suggestions of the non-EV-owner experts more seriously. :lol:
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:17 am

This should be called the arm-chair warrior thread. A handful of non owner experts with professional first hand opinions formulated from the internet and its great wisdom.

GRA
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:03 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:42 am
GRA wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:32 pm
Gee, they finally decided to put one in Tusayan, only four or is it five years after I suggested the need for one there. I mean, it's only the southern gateway to the South Rim of the Grand Canyon with its 6+ million visitors a year, and has a Holiday Inn Express which Tesla has had an SC relationship with. Apparently they're putting it at the Grand Hotel across the street instead (stayed there once), but whatever works. Still no sign of Kayenta, Kalispell, or Ashfork/Seligman/Williams or I-15 north of I-90 in Montana, and for some bizarre reason Tesla has SCs under construction in Bismarck and Dickenson ND, but still nothing on I-29 through Fargo up to Winnipeg, despite the latter metro area having a greater population than the entire state of ND, and Fargo being the largest city in ND. At least they finally got the Trans-Canada Hwy going, albeit two years late.
Do you think companies get to force property owners and permit approval to their own timelines? Many of the locations are held up for years as a result of negotiations. red tape, and technical issues. When you work in an industry related to doing this type of work even on the residential side you would know it is a complete nightmare and nothing goes as planned even at the most conservative estimates. The good thing is the private for-profit networks have covered the US very well with their single-focus business models with no distraction of building cars.

As I pointed out, Tesla has an existing arrangement with Holiday Inn Express and had already built SCs at numerous other of their motels, so that argument doesn't work there. Having installed a PV system in Yosemite, if you think dealing with private companies and local governments is a bureaucratic nightmare, try dealing with a federal government agency - took me two years and having to deal with 5 different departments to get everyone's sign-off.

Regarding most of the other sites mentioned, Tesla has had them shown as "Coming Soon" for several years now on their own SC map and lists, so raising expectations and the subsequent failure to meet them is on them. If they didn't have the permission and permits, they had no business listing them as "Coming Soon".
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:26 pm

jlv wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:52 am
GRA wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:32 pm
Gee, they finally decided to put one in Tusayan, only four or is it five years after I suggested the need for one there.
The next time I lunch with Elon, I'll mention he should take the suggestions of the non-EV-owner experts more seriously. :lol:

Seeing as how the opinions of non-owners as to what their needs are is important if you're trying to grow your customer base, you think Tesla should ignore them? Of course, these sites were widely discussed and agreed upon on TMC, most of whose members are owners and who also asked for them. An SC in the Kayenta area was probably the single most requested site in the whole Four Corners area, to allow easy access to/through Monument Valley. Offhand, O don't recall many (if any) requests for one in Page.

Tesla did listen to our SC requests in some cases (e.g. Groveland and Lone Pine in California), and not in others, e.g. putting the SC in Mammoth instead of Lee Vining, not that we objected to one in Mammoth also; Topaz Lake rather than Bridgeport was another one (again, no issue with having one in both places).
Last edited by GRA on Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:27 pm

GRA wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:03 pm
EVDRIVER wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:42 am
GRA wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:32 pm
Gee, they finally decided to put one in Tusayan, only four or is it five years after I suggested the need for one there. I mean, it's only the southern gateway to the South Rim of the Grand Canyon with its 6+ million visitors a year, and has a Holiday Inn Express which Tesla has had an SC relationship with. Apparently they're putting it at the Grand Hotel across the street instead (stayed there once), but whatever works. Still no sign of Kayenta, Kalispell, or Ashfork/Seligman/Williams or I-15 north of I-90 in Montana, and for some bizarre reason Tesla has SCs under construction in Bismarck and Dickenson ND, but still nothing on I-29 through Fargo up to Winnipeg, despite the latter metro area having a greater population than the entire state of ND, and Fargo being the largest city in ND. At least they finally got the Trans-Canada Hwy going, albeit two years late.
Do you think companies get to force property owners and permit approval to their own timelines? Many of the locations are held up for years as a result of negotiations. red tape, and technical issues. When you work in an industry related to doing this type of work even on the residential side you would know it is a complete nightmare and nothing goes as planned even at the most conservative estimates. The good thing is the private for-profit networks have covered the US very well with their single-focus business models with no distraction of building cars.

As I pointed out, Tesla has an existing arrangement with Holiday Inn Express and had already built SCs at numerous other of their motels, so that argument doesn't work there. Having installed a PV system in Yosemite, if you think dealing with private companies and local governments is a bureaucratic nightmare, try dealing with a federal government agency - took me two years and having to deal with 5 different departments to get everyone's sign-off.

Regarding most of the other sites mentioned, Tesla has had them shown as "Coming Soon" for several years now on their own SC map and lists, so raising expectations and the subsequent failure to meet them is theirs.
So your logic is because one location worked another should go quickly as well? Your logic and experience in these matters is flawed. Locations on a map for long periods of time also have no significance to any conclusions. It can take a year just to get PGE to agree on the entry point for power into a residential home so don't think Holiday Inn has some magic wand to solve all issues. If you actually worked in construction and dealt with these issues you would realize how insane you sound. Don't forget one resident can hold up any project for years. Put that on the list of hundreds of possible reasons for delays.

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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:39 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:27 pm
GRA wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:03 pm
EVDRIVER wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:42 am


Do you think companies get to force property owners and permit approval to their own timelines? Many of the locations are held up for years as a result of negotiations. red tape, and technical issues. When you work in an industry related to doing this type of work even on the residential side you would know it is a complete nightmare and nothing goes as planned even at the most conservative estimates. The good thing is the private for-profit networks have covered the US very well with their single-focus business models with no distraction of building cars.

As I pointed out, Tesla has an existing arrangement with Holiday Inn Express and had already built SCs at numerous other of their motels, so that argument doesn't work there. Having installed a PV system in Yosemite, if you think dealing with private companies and local governments is a bureaucratic nightmare, try dealing with a federal government agency - took me two years and having to deal with 5 different departments to get everyone's sign-off.

Regarding most of the other sites mentioned, Tesla has had them shown as "Coming Soon" for several years now on their own SC map and lists, so raising expectations and the subsequent failure to meet them is theirs.
So your logic is because one location worked another should go quickly as well? Your logic and experience in these matters is flawed. Locations on a map for long periods of time also have no significance to any conclusions. It can take a year just to get PGE to agree on the entry point for power into a residential home so don't think Holiday Inn has some magic wand to solve all issues. If you actually worked in construction and dealt with these issues you would realize how insane you sound. Don't forget one resident can hold up any project for years. Put that on the list of hundreds of possible reasons for delays.

It certainly eliminates holdups from the property owner's end if the corporation is onboard, as HIE is; Day's Inn is another such for Tesla (for EA, having Walmart and Target buy-in are examples of just how fast things can move). But as noted, Tesla ultimately didn't use HIE and went across the street instead. And unlike many of the years-delayed "Coming Soon" sites, Tesla hadn't listed Tusayan as such, so at least they didn't raise anyone's expectations there.

As to "Locations on a map for long periods of time also have no significance to any conclusions", if so, why did Tesla even put them on the map in the first place? This wasn't a case of potential sites, these were "Coming Soon". We've learned that for Tesla, "Soon" can vary from "this week" to "maybe sometime this decade," but it's entirely on them for so twisting the definition of "Soon".
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:20 pm

Looks like Tesla hasn't given up on Bishop Superchargers after all:

https://www.sierrawave.net/telsa-seeks- ... in-bishop/
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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:48 am

GRA wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:39 pm
EVDRIVER wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:27 pm
GRA wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:03 pm



As I pointed out, Tesla has an existing arrangement with Holiday Inn Express and had already built SCs at numerous other of their motels, so that argument doesn't work there. Having installed a PV system in Yosemite, if you think dealing with private companies and local governments is a bureaucratic nightmare, try dealing with a federal government agency - took me two years and having to deal with 5 different departments to get everyone's sign-off.

Regarding most of the other sites mentioned, Tesla has had them shown as "Coming Soon" for several years now on their own SC map and lists, so raising expectations and the subsequent failure to meet them is theirs.
So your logic is because one location worked another should go quickly as well? Your logic and experience in these matters is flawed. Locations on a map for long periods of time also have no significance to any conclusions. It can take a year just to get PGE to agree on the entry point for power into a residential home so don't think Holiday Inn has some magic wand to solve all issues. If you actually worked in construction and dealt with these issues you would realize how insane you sound. Don't forget one resident can hold up any project for years. Put that on the list of hundreds of possible reasons for delays.

It certainly eliminates holdups from the property owner's end if the corporation is onboard, as HIE is; Day's Inn is another such for Tesla (for EA, having Walmart and Target buy-in are examples of just how fast things can move). But as noted, Tesla ultimately didn't use HIE and went across the street instead. And unlike many of the years-delayed "Coming Soon" sites, Tesla hadn't listed Tusayan as such, so at least they didn't raise anyone's expectations there.

As to "Locations on a map for long periods of time also have no significance to any conclusions", if so, why did Tesla even put them on the map in the first place? This wasn't a case of potential sites, these were "Coming Soon". We've learned that for Tesla, "Soon" can vary from "this week" to "maybe sometime this decade," but it's entirely on them for so twisting the definition of "Soon".
Glad you simplified what went on with all those situations, you must have access to the day to day operations on both sides.

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Re: Tesla Supercharger Network

Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:05 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:48 am
Glad you simplified what went on with all those situations, you must have access to the day to day operations on both sides.

At least I contributed to the discussion and offered my suggestions to the company after examining the available infrastructure in the area. Here's some relevant posts on TMC discussing where SCs are desired in the region, which also involved at least two other MNL members. I imagine I wasn't the only person to forward comments to Tesla, on these and other occasions:

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ost-877707

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-1391885

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-1560067

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-2600800

We have at least gotten SCs in places like Estes Park, CO (E. gateway to Rocky Mtn. N.P.), Jackson, WY (S. gateway to Grand Teton N.P.), W. Yellowstone, MT (W. gateway to Yellowstone N.P.), Groveland and Fish Camp, CA (W. and S gateways to Yosemite N.P.), Lone Pine, CA (E. gateway to Whitney Portal area of Sequoia N.P.) and "Soon" (Tesla def.) in Tusayan. Whether any of our lobbying Tesla for these was a factor in their appearance I couldn't say, but you'd think they'd want to listen to and benefit from their existing and potential customers' desires.
Last edited by GRA on Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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