mbender
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DCQCs at dealers should be as dependable as gas pumps

Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:41 pm

(or nearly as dependable, anyway.) Shouldn't they? At the very least, they need to be fixed promptly, "I would think". Here's what happened.

I stopped at the Fremont CA (ironically home of Tesla's factory) dealer yesterday with VLB only to find out that their quick charger is out of order and has been for several weeks. I was dumbfounded, quite upset, and unsure of how to salvage my day. I ended up having my vehicle towed to "the next closest dealer" that had a quick charger.

Now, I know I could have checked ahead, but calling to check gets old quick (for drivers and dealers), and believe it or not, not everyone has a smart phone. Also, I admit that I have been "lured into complacency" because I have never had a problem with any other DCQC (dealer or otherwise). Nevertheless, I feel the (long-standing) state of that dealer's quick charger is unacceptable.

I'm sure some will accuse me of feeling entitled, or whining, and blame it all on me, but I do think that Quick Chargers, especially at dealers, should be 99% dependable (or more, five 9s?) and, if they do have a problem, it should be fixed ASAP -- not in a month, or more.

Aside/ps. The tow truck driver said that he had towed a lot of LEAFs in the past few weeks, and I'd be surprised if that was purely a coincidence. It can't reflect well on Nissan or dealerships or EVs in general to have people see LEAFs being towed "all over the place". (On the plus side and somewhat unrelated, he said that he has towed a lot of Volts too, and that their drivers were almost always livid and unpleasant. He said I was very calm in comparison, although 1.) I had calmed down by that time, and 2.) I wouldn't project my anger onto him in any case.)
I think I just felt my paradigm shift.

2012 SL (One of the colors): 2-year lease, 2012+,
2015 S w/QC (A different color): 3-year lease, 2014+,
2017 SV (Same color as 2015 S): 3-year lease, 2017+, lower monthly than either above(!)

Stoaty
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Re: DCQCs at dealers should be as dependable as gas pumps

Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:03 pm

If the QC aren't dependable, it's almost worse than not having them.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: DCQCs at dealers should be as dependable as gas pumps

Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:53 pm

When you can't even rely on a dealer having an L-2 charger out in the open and always on, I think that complaints about QC reliability at dealerships (which we don't even have, here) aren't going to be taken as seriously as might otherwise be the case...
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KJD
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Re: DCQCs at dealers should be as dependable as gas pumps

Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:02 am

I would agree that the DCQC should be fixed ASAP when it is broken.

Most Nissan dealers also have more than one L2 charge station on the lot. Why not plug into that long enough to get enough charge to drive to the next DCQC ?

Seems like it would take about the same amount of time as calling a tow truck and waiting for that to show up.
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JeremyW
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Re: DCQCs at dealers should be as dependable as gas pumps

Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:39 am

Tustin Nissan's Qc has been down for over a month now... :(

But we do have a ~20kw unit a few miles down the road at least.
Former 2012 SL leasee 6/23/12 - 9/23/15
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Now driving Spark EV and Model 3.

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EVDRIVER
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Re: DCQCs at dealers should be as dependable as gas pumps

Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:55 am

A dealership is a private business not a place for the entire EV public to get free charging. Just be lucky any dealerships want to even have public EVSE units. No one should rely on any dealer-based EVSE and they should be grateful they are there for use at all.

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abasile
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Re: DCQCs at dealers should be as dependable as gas pumps

Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:22 am

EVDRIVER wrote:A dealership is a private business not a place for the entire EV public to get free charging. Just be lucky any dealerships want to even have public EVSE units. No one should rely on any dealer-based EVSE and they should be grateful they are there for use at all.
In the case where someone desires to charge a non-Nissan EV at a Nissan dealership, I would agree with you.

However, the LEAF is being sold to the public with the understanding that there is a quick charging network. Today the Nissan dealers form the backbone of that network. If dealers cannot be relied on, that really diminishes the value of this network, unfortunately. I don't think it is unreasonable for Nissan's customers to expect that good faith efforts be made to keep QCs operational.

I agree that the central flaw in this whole model is that dealers are independent businesses and Nissan's leverage with them is limited. I do hope that Nissan's leverage in this regard will increase as the EV market grows. This sure makes one appreciate the Tesla model.
2011 LEAF at 71K miles, pre-owned 2012 Tesla S 85 at 98K miles
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hill
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Re: DCQCs at dealers should be as dependable as gas pumps

Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:56 am

mbender wrote:(or nearly as dependable, anyway.) Shouldn't they? At the very least, they need to be fixed promptly, "I would think". Here's what happened.

I stopped at the Fremont CA (ironically home of Tesla's factory) dealer yesterday with VLB only to find out that their quick charger is out of order and has been for several weeks. I was dumbfounded, quite upset, and unsure of how to salvage my day. I ended up having my vehicle towed to "the next closest dealer" that had a quick charger.

Now, I know I could have checked ahead, but calling to check gets old quick (for drivers and dealers), and believe it or not, not everyone has a smart phone. Also, I admit that I have been "lured into complacency" because I have never had a problem with any other DCQC (dealer or otherwise). Nevertheless, I feel the (long-standing) state of that dealer's quick charger is unacceptable.

I'm sure some will accuse me of feeling entitled, or whining, and blame it all on me, but I do think that Quick Chargers, especially at dealers, should be 99% dependable (or more, five 9s?) and, if they do have a problem, it should be fixed ...........snip..........
.....should be fixed, eh?
You wana hear "crying" ??
As Jeremy points out ... you can go to plugshare.com and check out the MONTH long list of complainers at the Tustin Nissan Q.C.
:lol:
Actually - there are now TWO independent QC's, not too far from Tustins' location ... so the odds that you can at least 'get by' have gotten better ... presuming you can limp off to one of the 2 alternatives.
But Nissan's network? Yep. It's like Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown. ... best to call ahead
At least gas stations have lots of pumps, so if one fails, there's another bank usually 100' away at the same station. Or, you cross the street and use another stations' multiple bank of pump. Exasperation is the price we pay as early adapters.
.

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Wennfred
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Re: DCQCs at dealers should be as dependable as gas pumps

Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:15 am

We are lucky here in San Diego as there are plenty of DCQC stations here and tons of L2 stations, and now with the new EVgo network that's popping up everywhere at a subscription rate. In the begining around Aug 2013 I tried out a few charging stations like Blink & Charge Point at shopping malls just to see how they worked, but since I have not used any. I can do all I need with the charge from home.

All EV's have limits, plan ahead. I could never see myself asking to be towed. I use my leaf to get around town locally and to go to work and back. If you don't have a smart phone to use plugShare or can not figure out the GOM meter then get yourself a LeafDD and use the GIDs as an indicator to get you around. I use my LeafDD daily and it tells me how much I have left in the tank, it plugs into the OBD-II connector which sits just above your knees.

It's good to have charging stations around town, most like 5 miles apart but why even go there, top off if you like but don't ever rely on them.

And what's up with these Volt owners being towed also??? They don't have any gas in them? Sounds like that tow driver was full of shit.


Fred
MFG: FEB 2011, Red Recd 08/10/13 @ 19600 Miles
"Eco Mode" only. 06/24/15 - 9 CB @ 43,000mi 100% charge: GIDS=199, S=95.37, C=46.76, H=50.51 Lost 1st CB at 26300, 2nd CB 34274 3rd CB 43000 miles

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EVDRIVER
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Re: DCQCs at dealers should be as dependable as gas pumps

Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:24 am

abasile wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:A dealership is a private business not a place for the entire EV public to get free charging. Just be lucky any dealerships want to even have public EVSE units. No one should rely on any dealer-based EVSE and they should be grateful they are there for use at all.
In the case where someone desires to charge a non-Nissan EV at a Nissan dealership, I would agree with you.

However, the LEAF is being sold to the public with the understanding that there is a quick charging network. Today the Nissan dealers form the backbone of that network. If dealers cannot be relied on, that really diminishes the value of this network, unfortunately. I don't think it is unreasonable for Nissan's customers to expect that good faith efforts be made to keep QCs operational.

I agree that the central flaw in this whole model is that dealers are independent businesses and Nissan's leverage with them is limited. I do hope that Nissan's leverage in this regard will increase as the EV market grows. This sure makes one appreciate the Tesla model.

Dealers are not the backbone of public charging for the LEAF nor should they be relied on for many reasons. They are businesses that need EVSE units to charge new customer cars and are there for the occasional emergency, if they were relied upon for public infrastructure dealers would be dealing with all sorts of issues. I hear this complaint from dealers all the time and Nissan forces them to have EVSE units and in many cases they are in locations that are a pain for a dealer to manage. If dealers want to invite this they sure can but they are certainly not a backbone of anything. Being forced to have EVSE units for customers buying cars makes sense, forcing dealers to make it open to anyone and pay for power and deal with the many problems of public charging at a business place is complete nonsense from a business perspective. If you own a LEAF and rely on a dealer to charge you likely bought the wrong car. Most people that do not own businesses do not have a clue what issues this causes for a business.

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