Leaf Heater

I would like to see Nissan offer an optional propane heater. What I have in mind is a heater like one of those that you see as table top heaters that use a screw-on one quart disposable propane canister. It would reside outside of the passenger compartment and have a heat exchanger that would take cabin air and heat it through the heat exchanger while the propane exhaust is exhausted to the outside air.
The advantage is that the heater is used only for a portion of the year. Because it is heating up cabin air (especially if the cabin air has been preheated before travel starts) it would take very little propane to keep the cabin warm while driving and yet save several miles of travel on a charge in the winter.
If designed in from the begining, it shouldn't be all that expensive of an option. Table-top heaters are not expensive.

yes, great idea.

No, it will never, ever happen.

Reason? They will no longer be able to claim "zero emisions"

The dangers associated with the storage and use of propane
are non-trivial (ex-hot-air balloon pilot).

So, safety and liability issues are most lilely to exclude te use
of propane heaters INSIDE cars.

In RVs all the propane storage and combustion is OUTSIDE, I believe.

garygid said:

The dangers associated with the storage and use of propane
are non-trivial (ex-hot-air balloon pilot).

So, safety and liability issues are most lilely to exclude te use
of propane heaters INSIDE cars.

In RVs all the propane storage and combustion is OUTSIDE, I believe.

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Good point, Garygid. I agree with you.

Maybe it should be fired with hydrogen to produce only water vapor

My VW EVs have 5 kw Diesel-heaters (Eberspächer), which heats water.

It's the same kind of equipment used to provide heat in Diesel ICE-cars. (The engine in them produces too little heat to warm the car.)

So make it an alcohol based heater. You can still claim zero emissions and save the EV range in cold weather.

Norway said:

(The engine in them produces too little heat to warm the car.)

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My own experience with the LEAF's heater makes me think the same holds true with it. You guys in colder climes are not going to be happy with it.

I think that the cold weather package, at Least as described on the Japanese website has a PTC type heater of 5kw capacity
At first I thought this was a pack heater , but now I think it is a different type of cabin heater
Electric element to air instead of the current water to air system

PTC stand for positive temperature coefficient and it is a patented heating element tech used in some ice cars to provide cabin heat before the ice warms up
They pancake it on top of the traditional heater core. Used in Lexus ct200h and Lexus lx570 models

I am not saying it's a sure bet or will fix the weak heater. But it's prob better

I didn't want to take the heat for being the first to post this Idea, But...

The purpose for which fossil fuels are undeniably superior to electricity is in producing heat by direct combustion. A small propane or nat gas exterior vented heater in an EV makes a lot of sense, and may be a near-necessity in very cold climates. Using heavy and expensive battery power for cabin heat is a minor problem in mild climates, but a waste of resources once you try to drive in very low ambient temperatures.

I'll bet someone will have one of these type of heaters in their LEAF within a year.

edatoakrun said:

I didn't want to take the heat for being to post this Idea, But...

The purpose for which fossil fuels are undeniably superior to electricity is in producing heat by direct combustion. A small propane or nat gas exterior vented heater in an EV makes a lot of sense, and may be a near-necessity in very cold climates. Using heavy and expensive battery power for cabin heat is a minor problem in mild climates, but a waste of resources once you try to drive in very low ambient temperatures.

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Replace "fossil" with "carbon-based" and you are absolutely correct. There is no need for carbon-based fuel to be made of million-year-old plant life.
=Smidge=

kmp647 said:

I think that the cold weather package, at Least as described on the Japanese website has a PTC type heater of 5kw capacity
At first I thought this was a pack heater , but now I think it is a different type of cabin heater
Electric element to air instead of the current water to air system

PTC stand for positive temperature coefficient and it is a patented heating element tech used in some ice cars to provide cabin heat before the ice warms up
They pancake it on top of the traditional heater core. Used in Lexus ct200h and Lexus lx570 models

I am not saying it's a sure bet or will fix the weak heater. But it's prob better

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Many factory EVs use them exclusively rather than having the added weight of a tank of water, hoses, fluid, etc. My Think had one and it heated up in about 3 seconds.

One o' dem cat'll-lick-it corn-verters?

kahlepj said:

So make it an alcohol based heater. You can still claim zero emissions and save the EV range in cold weather.

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alcohol based fuel would produce emissions ...

Well, we know that the Leaf uses water/glycol to heat the cabin via a small hot water tank, similar to a residential electric hot water heater. It should be quite easy to add a fuel fired coolant heater similar to: http://www.espar.com/html/products/technology_coolant.html

This isn't as far fetched as one may think. Volvo has shown this very idea in their electric C30: http://green.autoblog.com/2010/01/21/volvo-c30-electric-vehicle-uses-ethanol-for-heat/

Anyone know how hot the motor/inverter/charger coolant gets?

If they put in active cooling for those parts there must be a reason. Obviously they don't put out nearly as much waste heat as an ICE but if the temp of that water is higher than the setpoint of the cabin then you got some potential "free" heating, and as a mod it would be simple to install some extra tubing, thermometer and a 3-way valve.
=Smidge=

muus said:

Well, we know that the Leaf uses water/glycol to heat the cabin via a small hot water tank, similar to a residential electric hot water heater.

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I didn't know that! I assumed it was just an electric resistance heat strip... basically a hair dryer.

It makes sense since you can re-use an off the shelf climate control system from an ICE car, you just need to provide a hot water source. Lots of ways to heat water. Its penny wise and pound foolish to nitpick over the carbon emissions from some sort of liquid fuel for that.

LTLFTcomposite said:

It makes sense since you can re-use an off the shelf climate control system from an ICE car, you just need to provide a hot water source. Lots of ways to heat water. Its penny wise and pound foolish to nitpick over the carbon emissions from some sort of liquid fuel for that.

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True - but for people like me, I'd prefer just electric heater. My commute is small - I've no problem with reduced range. I'd rather not have to go and buy some other fuel.

It could be a good option for cold places.

I googled "12v space heater" and got lots of hits for very inexpensive portable ceramic heaters with fans, that only appear to draw 150 watts or so...they are marketed as car auxiliary heaters, truck cab heaters etc. I know it seems kind of kludgy, but I wonder if for a relatively mild climate like SoCal that still has some chilly (for us) mornings, would such a thing plugged into the accessory outlet be a sensible alternative to the 3KW sucked up by the car's own heating system, just to take the edge off early in the drive? Alternatively what about a relatively low wattage 120v space heater (eg 500 watts or so) of the sort you'd typically put under your desk at work, on a timer to warm up the cabin before you head out as the car itself will do, but without firing up the EVSE at full load or draining the traction battery at what works out to a rate of about a mile of range every 5 minutes?