Improve the steering feel

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ahagge

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 30, 2010
Messages
298
Location
Northridge, CA
This seems to be the single most commented-on "sore point" in virtually all of the Leaf reivews I've seen from the professional reviewers (and from many future Leaf owners as well!). Based on my two test drives, I agree...at low speeds the boost is too strong and on-center too vague. Nissan says that it is reduced at highway speeds, but alas, the Drive Electric Tour didn't allow me to get to those speeds. :(

Does anyone know whether Nissan has heard the chorus and will be doing anything about the vague steering feel prior to the first production models rolling off the boat? Or even afterwards? It seems to me like this should be a relatively simple software modification. I'm sure that the steering boost is controlled by a computer somewhere on the vehicle...
 
I was able to get up to 50 on one drive and it was still awful at that speed. The same over-boosted, numb, lack-of-any-off-center feel! Remote controlled casters as one pro reviewer from Car and Driver said. I can only hope that someone is listening and does something about it as it was far and away the biggest drive turn off for me!

Tom

ahagge said:
This seems to be the single most commented-on "sore point" in virtually all of the Leaf reivews I've seen from the professional reviewers (and from many future Leaf owners as well!). Based on my two test drives, I agree...at low speeds the boost is too strong and on-center too vague. Nissan says that it is reduced at highway speeds, but alas, the Drive Electric Tour didn't allow me to get to those speeds. :(

Does anyone know whether Nissan has heard the chorus and will be doing anything about the vague steering feel prior to the first production models rolling off the boat? Or even afterwards? It seems to me like this should be a relatively simple software modification. I'm sure that the steering boost is controlled by a computer somewhere on the vehicle...
 
Agreed. Felt like video game controller during test drive. I think many driving enthusiasts are interested in driving electric, but the vague steering will put them off. While it's a disappointment, I will likely still go ahead with the Leaf.
 
I agree on all accounts! I hope the production version has corrected that. If not, having read the service manual and now knowing how the steering system works in detail, it would be easy to trick it to increase the feel and effort.

stromi said:
Agreed. Felt like video game controller during test drive. I think many driving enthusiasts are interested in driving electric, but the vague steering will put them off. While it's a disappointment, I will likely still go ahead with the Leaf.
 
One more 'don't change it' vote. I got up to 56 on my test drive and steering was light at slow speed but firmed as speed increased. This was the most comfortable and familiar first drive I've ever done in a new car.

Don't change a thing, Nissan - just ship more cars across the Pacific!
 
To me it is just a point A to point B car not a sports car.
I like it as is. Well unless possibly significantly more range could be obtained by reducing the assist.
 
smkettner said:
To me it is just a point A to point B car not a sports car.
I like it as is.
+1 here. This is not a car for performance driving, so why is the "feel" of the steering so important? As long as the handling is stable and predictable, it does not wander unexpectedly at speed, bump-steer poorly, or tramline on road grooves, camber, etc., why would you care about how the steering feels? Nobody is going to be driving these things at the limit of grip constantly, which is when steering feedback might help the driver control the car better and enjoy the experience of pushing a machine to its limit safely with confidence. Steering "feel" is a parameter best applied to reviewing high performance cars. This is a utility vehicle, designed for economy. So the steering is light--big deal! It makes it more effortless to drive, especially for the "physically challenged" (less strong). If it was too heavy and required excessive effort for accomplishing control inputs, I think there would be far more complaints.

If you are looking for steering feel, for the sensation of being connected to the road through the steering wheel and the tire contact patch, getting feedback from every nuance and pebble on the surface of the road while pushing to the limits of grip, buy a Porsche or a Lotus. They are renowned for this quality, and that's why I own one. High performance handling is not what I expect from a Leaf, and it didn't enter into my decision to buy one at all. I'm not going to drive it like I stole it. ;)

TT
 
I don't know what all this talk about game controllers is about...my force feedback wheel has a lot more feedback than the LEAF. :)
 
Feel is important because, aside from increasing the enjoyment of the vehicle, it is part of the passive accident avoidance capability of any vehicle. Having that feedback makes it much easier and more precise to perform evasive maneuvers if necessary.

I drove a friend's new Ford Fiesta the other day, for example, and was pleasantly surprised at how well weighted the steering was and how nice it gave feedback. This is also one thing that indirectly gives a perception of quality to many since it is a hallmark of much more expensive and higher end vehicles.

ttweed said:
This is not a car for performance driving, so why is the "feel" of the steering so important?
 
Good feeling in the steering wheel communicates information about how the vehicle is interacting with the road. You notice if the vehicle is sliding or skipping on gravel/sand/snow etc better since "stiff" steering makes the difference more pronounced. Overall I feel it helps me "connect" with the vehicle and subconsciously monitor its performance. That might sound weird to people who don't enjoy driving... but it's absolutely one of the things that makes driving an unfamiliar vehicle less comfortable.

The manual mentions that the steering assist/boost power might be reduced if the unit is overheating (eg turning the wheel a lot while not moving - botched parallel parking?). So this suggests that it is technically possible to modulate the steering boost - although there probably isn't a dial somewhere you can tweak.
=Smidge=
 
Smidge204 said:
The manual mentions that the steering assist/boost power might be reduced if the unit is overheating (eg turning the wheel a lot while not moving - botched parallel parking?). So this suggests that it is technically possible to modulate the steering boost - although there probably isn't a dial somewhere you can tweak.

No, but there IS a thermal sensor somewhere that you can spoof, or heat up. :)
 
mogur said:
Feel is important because, aside from increasing the enjoyment of the vehicle, it is part of the passive accident avoidance capability of any vehicle. Having that feedback makes it much easier and more precise to perform evasive maneuvers if necessary.

I drove a friend's new Ford Fiesta the other day, for example, and was pleasantly surprised at how well weighted the steering was and how nice it gave feedback. This is also one thing that indirectly gives a perception of quality to many since it is a hallmark of much more expensive and higher end vehicles.

ttweed said:
This is not a car for performance driving, so why is the "feel" of the steering so important?


Mogur- I'm glad to see some people here that actually understand vehicles and the importance of proper steering feel and why the Leaf has been criticized for this. The irony is that EPS can be made to feel really nice. Besides the poor feedback from the wheel, YES, it makes the car fee cheap and steering feel is a primary interface in a car and should have very good feel in a car like this.
 
mogur said:
Feel is important because, aside from increasing the enjoyment of the vehicle, it is part of the passive accident avoidance capability of any vehicle. Having that feedback makes it much easier and more precise to perform evasive maneuvers if necessary.
I have been a nationally-certified driving instructor for over a dozen years now, both in HPDE events and novice schools such as the Tire Rack Street Survival School for teens. I would submit that unless you practice evasive maneuvers in any car you drive (skid pad, threshold braking, emergency lane changes, slide control, etc.) in both wet and dry conditions ahead of an incident, to completely familiarize yourself with its handling characteristics and capabilities, all the steering feel in the world won't make much of a difference when the sh!t hits the fan. How will you know how the car reacts at the limit and be prepared for it otherwise? Does it understeer or oversteer? When does the ABS kick in? You're going to perform your "precise evasive maneuver" based on what--this subjective "steering feel that provides an intuitive connection to the vehicle for your enjoyment?" Good luck with that, people. You're fooling yourself. I'd rather depend on physics, prior knowledge of the vehicle's dynamics, practice, and experience to save my ass. A better "passive accident avoidance" system than tweaking your steering to improve its "feel" would be to practice alert and vigilant defensive driving at all times. Turn off your phone and your iPod, to start, and pay attention.

I drove a friend's new Ford Fiesta the other day, for example, and was pleasantly surprised at how well weighted the steering was and how nice it gave feedback. This is also one thing that indirectly gives a perception of quality to many since it is a hallmark of much more expensive and higher end vehicle.
There is perception, and then there is reality. If you want a high-end performance EV, then buy a Tesla. The Leaf ain't it. It is not designed for that. Take a long look at those 205mm-wide, low-rolling-resistance tires on a car that weighs 3400 lbs. If you wanted performance and "feel," you would slap some 245 R-compounds on it first thing, tweak the stock alignment settings, and probably dust that Fiesta at an autocross. But that would defeat the main purpose of the car, which is economy and utility in a "green," emission-less package. I enjoy driving as much or more than anyone here, as it has been an avocation of mine for many years, but that's why I have other cars more suited to that purpose.

YMMV,
TT
 
OK, I ran a Lotus Elan in SCCA C Production for a number of years, have autocrossed extensively, drove go karts competitively, and have participated in the L.A. Sheriffs driving training course.

'Nuff said. Now give me more steering feel<G>!

ttweed said:
I have been a nationally-certified driving instructor for over a dozen years now, both in HPDE events and novice schools such as the Tire Rack Street Survival School for teens. I would submit that unless you practice evasive maneuvers in any car you drive (skid pad, threshold braking, emergency lane changes, slide control, etc.) in both wet and dry conditions ahead of an incident, to completely familiarize yourself with its handling characteristics and capabilities, all the steering feel in the world won't make much of a difference when the sh!t hits the fan
 
EVDRIVER said:
Mogur- I'm glad to see some people here that actually understand vehicles and the importance of proper steering feel and why the Leaf has been criticized for this. The irony is that EPS can be made to feel really nice. Besides the poor feedback from the wheel, YES, it makes the car fee cheap and steering feel is a primary interface in a car and should have very good feel in a car like this.
"Proper steering feel" is a totally subjective judgment, as can be seen by the varying opinions of the nature of the Leaf's steering expressed here and elsewhere. Many of the criticisms leveled at it have been by people comparing it to a totally different class of vehicle. Yes, they may have over-boosted the steering for some people's tastes. Yes, the EPS could be tweaked to vary rates differently to please some people more, at the expense of others, with a bunch of people not caring one way or the other, probably. But the EPS boost level is just one component of the system. Decreasing boost and increasing steering effort alone will not magically give "proper" feel to the car. This is achieved by a combination of suspension geometry, alignment settings, shocks, anti-roll bars, tire size and compound, Ackermann and the scrub radius of the wheels. Altering some of these could have far more impact on the steering feel than decreasing or altering power-assist ratios. I doubt if it is very high up on the Leaf engineers' horizon, though, given the other exigencies of the moment. It's just not that big a deal in this market segment.

TT
 
mogur said:
OK, I ran a Lotus Elan in SCCA C Production for a number of years, have autocrossed extensively, drove go karts competitively, and have participated in the L.A. Sheriffs driving training course.

'Nuff said. Now give me more steering feel<G>!

Stick with your Lotus for that! :lol:
It's an econobox, fer cryin' out loud. But an electric one. :D

Do take the Leaf to a skidpad or an autox when you get it, though, shake it down, familiarize yourself, and report back on the handling, please!

TT
 
Looking at the service manual, I can see there should be an opportunity to create a box that will allow you to customize the steering feel. This sounds like a great first LEAF product for me to develop.
 
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