Focus on the Battery

I suggest NISSAN really focus on the most important issue in the race for the best EV in the global market, that is the battery quality and the need for better and increased (and safe) range. So, NISSAN do your best to make even better batteries to keep the lead.

If you can, try to make the recharging process faster.

These two points should be your major concern in the near future for the benefit of your clients and never forget that your better performant batteries MUST allow replace older batteries (same space with more energie efficeincy).

Keep going with th good work NISSAN and you will have your name in the All of the Fame.

ruimegas said:

If you can, try to make the recharging process faster.

Click to expand...

I'm not an expert of batteries by any means, but I don't think any improvements in battery technology will help decrease charging times. I think it's safe to say that battery chemistry is not the limiting factor. Instead, the limit is power available at the charging location.

As for modernizing batteries, I think the LEAF already has a good step up on that: The battery compartment is well defined and easily accessible for replacement. All they would have to do is pack new cells into the same housing and maybe tweak the charging unit a bit. If they match the voltage the car won't even notice the difference.

Speaking of, the LEAF seems to be at least partially/superficially compatible with the Better Place style battery swap method. Perhaps a relatively simple retrofit would enable that kind of service... then charging times would be almost moot.
=Smidge=

Smidge204 said:

Speaking of, the LEAF seems to be at least partially/superficially compatible with the Better Place style battery swap method.

Click to expand...

Nissan has stated that this first generation Leaf was not designed to be compatible with the Better Place battery swap model. Perhaps Gen2 or 3 will be, if their business model survives. They will have a rough road in the USA due to the expansive geography, but might do OK in Europe, Israel, etc.

TT

Do you really think you can swap the battery faster then 30 minutes?

Gonewild said:

Do you really think you can swap the battery faster then 30 minutes?

Click to expand...

Yes. In under 2 minutes, actually. You seem to have missed the link in my post:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd0WPw3p2MQ

=Smidge=

Smidge204 said:

Gonewild said:

Do you really think you can swap the battery faster then 30 minutes?

Click to expand...

Yes. In under 2 minutes, actually. You seem to have missed the link in my post

Click to expand...

While that may be a Nissan in the video, it is not a production Leaf. It is a specially modified Nissan EV built for BP to demo their technology, and fitted with their special automated quick-release battery pack. Nissan did not engineer compatibility with their automated solution into the Leaf. I'm pretty sure it takes a human with a wrench to undo the (six?) bolts securing the Leaf battery pack so it can be dropped. One of the weaknesses of the BP scheme is that they must convince the manufacturers to design compatibility with their automated swap stations into the car. This is going to be like herding cats, to get everyone in the EV manufacturing game to play along. This could happen eventually with the Leaf, as the Renault-Nissan Alliance is a partner with BP in the endeavor, but it will be awhile, I'm afraid.

TT

Smidge204 said:

ruimegas said:

If you can, try to make the recharging process faster.

Click to expand...

I'm not an expert of batteries by any means, but I don't think any improvements in battery technology will help decrease charging times. I think it's safe to say that battery chemistry is not the limiting factor. Instead, the limit is power available at the charging location.=Smidge=

Click to expand...

Do a Google search on Lithium Air batteries. Widely considered the "Holy Grail" of battery technology. You might just fall out of your chair regarding potential capacity, weight and charge time for them.

ruimegas said:

If you can, try to make the recharging process faster.

Click to expand...

The answer is Lithium Titanate batteries. Toshiba is making them (SCiB) (so does Altairnano) - and will be used by VW. 10 Minute charges and 6,000 cycles.

http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1030335_toshibas-scib-batteries-leap-forward-to-90-sec-recharge-time

Smidge204 said:

Gonewild said:

Do you really think you can swap the battery faster then 30 minutes?

Click to expand...

Yes. In under 2 minutes, actually. You seem to have missed the link in my post:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd0WPw3p2MQ

=Smidge=

Click to expand...

OK who covers the warranty.

So you can beat the battery to death and just swap it out with a different beat to death battery.

Gonewild said:

OK who covers the warranty.

So you can beat the battery to death and just swap it out with a different beat to death battery.

Click to expand...

The customer always covers the warranty one way or another.

Gonewild said:

OK who covers the warranty.

So you can beat the battery to death and just swap it out with a different beat to death battery.

Click to expand...

Better Place's business model involves the user leasing battery rights. They own the batteries and make sure nobody gets a dud installed in their car. Since it is known who gets what battery and when, I'm pretty sure you'll get caught if you start abusing them.

evnow said:

The answer is Lithium Titanate batteries. Toshiba is making them (SCiB) (so does Altairnano) - and will be used by VW. 10 Minute charges and 6,000 cycles.

Click to expand...

At a reduced capacity. There's always a catch! Doesn't solve the "power at the premises" limitation though. You're not getting a ten-minute EV charge unless you have a 600-Amp 240V outlet in your garage!

TRONZ said:

You might just fall out of your chair regarding potential capacity, weight and charge time for them.

Click to expand...

I'll fall out of my chair when they actually start production If it's one thing I learned it's not to get too excited over lab results.

ttweed said:

Nissan did not engineer compatibility with their automated solution into the Leaf. I'm pretty sure it takes a human with a wrench to undo the (six?) bolts securing the Leaf battery pack so it can be dropped.

Click to expand...

I'm aware. The fact that it's a Nissan car in the video is coincidence IMHO. My point was the location and form factor for the LEAF pack appears to take cues from this concept: drop straight out the bottom of the car, as opposed to being behind the seats or in the trunk. The fanciful daydream here is an aftermarket modification that would mount the LEAF pack in a secondary quick-release/swap compatible frame with necessary electrical contacts, or replace the LEAF pack with an entirely new one specifically designed for swapping.

Though I agree that getting manufacturers to get somewhat standardized on battery form factors would be difficult, I can see them settling on a handful of sizes/forms - maybe three or four - which would make swapping more difficult but still possible. I think a key here is having robust third-party battery manufacturing so car manufacturers can get "off the shelf" packs that are still adequate to their engineering needs.
=Smidge=

It's ok for me the 28 minutes 80% charge provide by the quick chargers as long as they are in enough number in my commuting area (not sure about the US because I think there are some doubts about the ChadeMO type of quick charger standardization). As far as I know the portuguese consortium MOBI-E responsible to provide and fullfill the countrie with the standardized chargers will do that until JULY 2011 http://www.mobi-e.pt/Pages/RefuelStations.aspx.

I don't think a Better Place system will work well in here because the cost of use will be too high.

What I expect is that NISSAN assure the possibility and compatibility of replacement of all the battery package by a new one with alot more range in it in 3 4 years from now and with all the increase in battery production we are able to see some scale down in the price per kw/h, and of course some pay back from my own old battery.