pdxleaf
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:17 pm

Range- 100 mile versus 200 mile

Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:29 pm

We've got 1700 miles on the Leaf so far. Not a lot to be offering advice, but enough to have developed a pattern. The range anxiety lasted about three days. The car is perfect for our city driving. Rather than not having enough range, we have too much.
We normally end the day with between 93 and 73 miles. We could not plug in for three days if we wanted, but we charge every night because we think it's better for the batteries. Our concern is that if we never fully discharge the batteries, is this shortening their life? Also, if we can't use 100 miles, how would we ever use 200 miles? Plus, we'd be paying alot of money for something we'd never use. Of course, this is not everyone's situation. Some people need a 200 mile range. Therefore, we suggest that Nissan consider offering an option of a shorter range and a longer range in future vehicles. That is, in the urge to develop a longer range vehicle, don't assume it's for everybody or that the current range is insufficient. We intend to buy another one in the future and would like to keep the costs down by not buying more battery than we need. Keep the current range and offer a longer range option for those who need it.

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AmarilloLeaf
Posts: 199
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:20 pm
Delivery Date: 31 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 617
Location: Amarillo, Texas

Re: Range- 100 mile versus 200 mile

Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:24 pm

Funny, at my house we DON'T plug in every night to put less stress on the batteries.

If I only drive 7 - 10 miles in a day, I don't bother to plug in unless I expect a lot of driving the next day.

Fewer charge cycles, and it doesn't hurt at all to leave the batteries at 65-70%.

Plus I normally charge to 80% instead of 100%.

I've got 2100 miles on the odometer now.... However, if I had a 200 mile range version available, I would probably buy it. It would open up a few more trips a year for me. It probably would not make sense economically, but it might allow me to ditch one ICE car that I keep on hand for longer trips.
Delivered 3/31/11
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planet4ever
Posts: 4674
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:53 pm
Delivery Date: 02 May 2011
Leaf Number: 1537
Location: Morgan Hill, CA, south of San Jose

Re: Range- 100 mile versus 200 mile

Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:44 pm

My two rules are:
  1. Plug it in if I'm down to 6 bars or less.
  2. Charge to 100% (regardless of bars left) only if I think I might be driving more than 50 miles the next day.
I average about 25 miles/day and end up plugging it in about 2/3 of the time. However, my wife and I did have some range anxiety a week ago when we took the LEAF to visit our grandkids 90 miles away. If I had a chance at a 50% larger battery I think I might take it.

Ray
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

smkettner
Posts: 7476
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Range- 100 mile versus 200 mile

Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:47 pm

I think it would be great to have 80, 160 & 240 mile range options. I would probably opt for the 160 with that choice.

And yes if you are always above 73 range upon return you should consider 80% charge and/or charging every two or three days. These are not lead acid batteries that need 100% charge to avoid sulfation. LEAF battery perfers somewhere in the 30% to 80% range of charge for long life.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

GaslessInSeattle
Posts: 1566
Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 2:15 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 850

Re: Range- 100 mile versus 200 mile

Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:51 pm

I have been surprised as well to find that an even shorter range car would cover the in city stuff, especially with a charging network in place. A faster rate of charge would reduce our total battery capacity needs. A 40-50 mile battery in a two seater, especially with QC and say a 6.6w charger would probably do it once we have the option of pairing it with a 300 mile EV-station wagon or ideally a medium size SUV like the highlander. For now the hundred mile range let's us avoid using our hybrid most of the time... If they were both EV we would probably use them both more equally and the LEAF's range might turn out to be overkill.

G
pdxleaf wrote:We've got 1700 miles on the Leaf so far. Not a lot to be offering advice, but enough to have developed a pattern. The range anxiety lasted about three days. The car is perfect for our city driving. Rather than not having enough range, we have too much.
We normally end the day with between 93 and 73 miles. We could not plug in for three days if we wanted, but we charge every night because we think it's better for the batteries. Our concern is that if we never fully discharge the batteries, is this shortening their life? Also, if we can't use 100 miles, how would we ever use 200 miles? Plus, we'd be paying alot of money for something we'd never use. Of course, this is not everyone's situation. Some people need a 200 mile range. Therefore, we suggest that Nissan consider offering an option of a shorter range and a longer range in future vehicles. That is, in the urge to develop a longer range vehicle, don't assume it's for everybody or that the current range is insufficient. We intend to buy another one in the future and would like to keep the costs down by not buying more battery than we need. Keep the current range and offer a longer range option for those who need it.
Gasless: Silver 2012 SL, traded in for Lease on 1/13
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davewill
Posts: 5083
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:04 pm
Location: San Diego, CA, US

Re: Range- 100 mile versus 200 mile

Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:48 am

The owners manual says clearly that you want to avoid recharging if the batt is not below 80%. I'd definitely program the car for 80% "long life" mode in your shoes. Then you continue freely charging every night.
2014 Rav4 EV, Blizzard Pearl White
2011 LEAF SL w/QC, Blue Ocean, returned at end of lease

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DaveEV
Posts: 6246
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:51 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: Range- 100 mile versus 200 mile

Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:33 am

planet4ever wrote:My two rules are:
  1. Plug it in if I'm down to 6 bars or less.
  2. Charge to 100% (regardless of bars left) only if I think I might be driving more than 50 miles the next day.
Very similar to me. Key is that 99% of the time I'm charging to 80%. Much better for efficiency overall as well since you get maximum regen from the start. Not having maximum regen for me can really hurt efficiency for me especially as I live on a small hill. And others have noted that since the charge rate slows down near the end when charging to 100% that also seems to lead to less efficiency.

Personally, I would love to have enough capacity to drive 115 miles at 65 mph with the A/C on in moderate temperatures. Of course - that would mean another 50% battery capacity - about 36 kWh rather than 24. Since I make that trip so infrequently - I would settle for another 20-25% range which would let me go closer 90+ miles at highway speeds without worry.

Edit: Of course as garygid also says - a couple well placed QC stations would also make a world of a difference - In most of my scenarios which I might want a larger pack 5-15 minute QC would solve the problem and avoid lugging around another 25-50% more battery 98% of the time when I don't need it.
Last edited by DaveEV on Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

LKK
Posts: 290
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:27 am

Re: Range- 100 mile versus 200 mile

Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:41 am

I love the idea of a consumer being able to pick and choose the battery that best meets their requirements. Why pay for more range than you really need?

Does anyone know how much power would be needed to charge a 200 mile battery in say 8 or 10 hours and will normal home wiring support this? My guess is it wouldn't take much more than running an electric range, so I would think it possible.

GaslessInSeattle
Posts: 1566
Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 2:15 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 850

Re: Range- 100 mile versus 200 mile

Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:47 am

LKK wrote:I love the idea of a consumer being able to pick and choose the battery that best meets their requirements. Why pay for more range than you really need?

Does anyone know how much power would be needed to charge a 200 mile battery in say 8 or 10 hours and will normal home wiring support this? My guess is it wouldn't take much more than running an electric range, so I would think it possible.
I think it's doable. I was also thinking an adjustable charger would be really nice, something that allowed the user to choose between slow and fast charging, optimizing battery life when there is plenty of time but also allowing for occasional fast charging in a pinch.
g
Gasless: Silver 2012 SL, traded in for Lease on 1/13
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planet4ever
Posts: 4674
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:53 pm
Delivery Date: 02 May 2011
Leaf Number: 1537
Location: Morgan Hill, CA, south of San Jose

Re: Range- 100 mile versus 200 mile

Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:02 pm

LKK wrote:Does anyone know how much power would be needed to charge a 200 mile battery in say 8 or 10 hours and will normal home wiring support this? My guess is it wouldn't take much more than running an electric range, so I would think it possible.
Sure, no sweat. Just update the charger in the car from 3.3 kW to 6.6 kW, and use any of the standard 30A charging docks and you've got it. If you have a wall mounted EVSE then it's almost sure to be on a 40A circuit, and that is all you would need. Well, not counting the really big ticket item, the 50+ kWh battery in the car! (More weight means it has to be more than twice as big.)

Ray
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

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