Having no need for a city or commute car (walking/bicycling takes care of those for me), I think it's time for the EV companies to stop quoting ideal ranges with new batteries. Here's how I would spec my personal range requirements:drees wrote:Very similar to me. Key is that 99% of the time I'm charging to 80%. Much better for efficiency overall as well since you get maximum regen from the start. Not having maximum regen for me can really hurt efficiency for me especially as I live on a small hill. And others have noted that since the charge rate slows down near the end when charging to 100% that also seems to lead to less efficiency.planet4ever wrote:My two rules are:
- Plug it in if I'm down to 6 bars or less.
- Charge to 100% (regardless of bars left) only if I think I might be driving more than 50 miles the next day.
Personally, I would love to have enough capacity to drive 115 miles at 65 mph with the A/C on in moderate temperatures. Of course - that would mean another 50% battery capacity - about 36 kWh rather than 24. Since I make that trip so infrequently - I would settle for another 20-25% range which would let me go closer 90+ miles at highway speeds without worry.
Edit: Of course as garygid also says - a couple well placed QC stations would also make a world of a difference - In most of my scenarios which I might want a larger pack 5-15 minute QC would solve the problem and avoid lugging around another 25-50% more battery 98% of the time when I don't need it.
Take 200 mile range in 8 hours. Use 3.3 miles/kWh which is 70 mph constant speed on the highway. Many people will do better than 3.3 mi/kWh, some will use a little more energy. Range-Speed-Bars Thumb Rule Table These numbers are a bit conservative - shorter charging time, higher energy consumption per mile. Some people with low speed commutes and good driving techniques are achieving 5+ mi/kWh.LKK wrote:I love the idea of a consumer being able to pick and choose the battery that best meets their requirements. Why pay for more range than you really need?
Does anyone know how much power would be needed to charge a 200 mile battery in say 8 or 10 hours and will normal home wiring support this? My guess is it wouldn't take much more than running an electric range, so I would think it possible.
I agree that battery leasing and exchange is extremely desirable, but both that and charging stations require expensive infrastructure investments (and design standardization for exchange), so I expect it will be 15-20 years before we get the kind of ubiquity that gas stations have. I think there's about a 5 year window for battery prices to drop enough that BEVs will sell for the same as ICEs, because if they can only be sold through incentives the market's unsustainable. As it is, Hybrids have never taken more than 3% of the market, and now that incentives and perks like single-occupancy HOV-lane use have disappeared they're below 2%.Volusiano wrote:I think in the long run, different battery options based on range needed would be available. I also think you would not have to select one option up front and be stuck with it for the rest of your car's life.
I think the easiest model is to keep the battery equation out of the car purchase altogether. You'd buy the car, but you'd lease the battery. This makes the car fully affordable and comparable to or possibly even lower then ICE car prices. Then you can select the battery range option you want to rent, and if you change your mind later, you can simply swap the battery out at the dealer and rent a different one with a different range.
Then over time, the concept of battery swapping stations will be more popular, and you can simply go to one of these stations and automatically swap a smaller battery for a larger one if you need to go on longer trips. Then swap back to a smaller battery after your long trip.
This makes the issue with battery longevity becomes a moot point, too, because you don't own the battery. Bad batteries will be recycled and replaced with good batteries by the manufacturer and the cost of this is factored into the cost of doing business overall. You don't need to worry about 80% or 100% charge anymore either, because with different range options available, all batteries can just be capped at 80% charge automatically by the manufacturer for longevity. If the current battery range option is too short for you, just move to the next range option, instead of worrying about going from 80% to 100% charge.
The battery leasing model is already being offered by Renault in Europe (Sweden)? for some of their cars. The battery swapping model is already being implemented in Sweden and Israel by Better Place. It's too advanced a concept for the US right now because the US is not as committed as Sweden or Israel to EVs to justify the infrastructure cost. But eventually I'm confident the idea will find adoption in the US once there are enough EVs in America for this model to make sense. You guys are already talking about the idea of having different battery range options here in this post, aren't you?
Thankfully for me, they didn't. I don't want a tiny car. I'd prefer one a bit bigger.GRA wrote:I'm surprised that Nissan choose to go with a 5 passenger car as their first EV; I'd think that the best way to get large numbers of batteries out there and get the price down would be via inexpensive 2-passenger (or 2+2) city/commuter cars like the Smart or (more likely) the Scion iQ/Think City. $10-15,000 is the price range I think it will take.
Good for you. But I suspect the typical market demographic has more use for a 2nd car for commuting/errands than they do for a family urban car. Apparently the average Leaf buyer is 45-55, with either an environmental or techie background. They'd need to skew a fair bit younger to need to haul kids around frequently to school/sports practice and what have you. If they're regularly hauling friends around town, the Leaf may be just the ticket.TonyWilliams wrote:Thankfully for me, they didn't. I don't want a tiny car. I'd prefer one a bit bigger.GRA wrote:I'm surprised that Nissan choose to go with a 5 passenger car as their first EV; I'd think that the best way to get large numbers of batteries out there and get the price down would be via inexpensive 2-passenger (or 2+2) city/commuter cars like the Smart or (more likely) the Scion iQ/Think City. $10-15,000 is the price range I think it will take.
You are describing a limited niche market, and the reason 2 seaters have always failed in the US.. for electric cars to be massively successful they have to be low cost, with perhaps a 2 year payback, and be able to carry 4-5 passengers. These are the minimum requirements for success... Electric cars are already saddled with the low range problem, no need to pile on more issues on top.GRA wrote: Good for you. But I suspect the typical market demographic has more use for a 2nd car for commuting/errands than they do for a family urban car. Apparently the average Leaf buyer is 45-55, with either an environmental or techie background.