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davewill
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Re: Why even have a "Start" button??!?

Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:38 am

TomT wrote:Apple brings out a new iPhone/iPad/iWhatever every year like clockwork with the express idea of obsoleting the older ones and driving people to buy the new one... Sorry, but that is planned obsolescence by any measure...
jkirkebo wrote:Umm, my iPhone 3GS is now over 3 years old and is not obsolete by any measure. It has been upgraded from IOS 3 to IOS 4 and now IOS 5.1. Ask HTC customers how many operating system upgrades they release for their old models...
I think I have to give JKirkebo the point on this one. My HTC built Android phone got ONE minor OS upgrade, is certain to see no more despite two major Android releases, and they've come out with several new models in the year and a half I've owned it. If you don't like the iPhone, there are plenty of reasons to choose from, but Apple's track record on obsolescence isn't one of them.
Last edited by davewill on Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ingineer
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Re: Why even have a "Start" button??!?

Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:11 pm

The Power button is intuitive, and most average consumers are used to turning on something before use. I don't believe it's a hassle or usability impediment. If we lived in a less litigious world, Nissan could simply enable auto-power on when placed in drive/reverse with the brake on for convenience. The big elephant in the room is the safety (liability) standpoint. Taking away a step as compared to other modern cars could open them up for litigation. If they do it like Toyota (which they did), they can ride in under the proverbial umbrella and they can safely state with confidence to the judge/jury: "we did it as per current industry practices" when someone's kid runs over his mom.

From an engineering perspective: You need at minimum a couple hundred milliseconds for precharge, test and detection for main relay failure, etc. This means there would be a marked delay in drive engaging if they added the aforementioned "automatic on" feature, which would be very annoying and possibly dangerous. As it is, I often "beat" this from Power to shift, and the car doesn't engage drive/reverse and I have to realize my mistake and select again. (annoying) If anything I'd try to spend engineering effort on speeding this precharge/testing up, as it would make a lot of people way happier!

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cwerdna
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Re: Why even have a "Start" button??!?

Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:03 pm

Ingineer wrote:The Power button is intuitive, and most average consumers are used to turning on something before use. I don't believe it's a hassle or usability impediment. If we lived in a less litigious world, Nissan could simply enable auto-power on when placed in drive/reverse with the brake on for convenience. The big elephant in the room is the safety (liability) standpoint. Taking away a step as compared to other modern cars could open them up for litigation. If they do it like Toyota (which they did), they can ride in under the proverbial umbrella and they can safely state with confidence to the judge/jury: "we did it as per current industry practices" when someone's kid runs over his mom.
Yep. And the practice used in the Leaf is just like that of other Nissans and Infiniti w/the Intelligent Key and many other cars w/similar systems, besides just Toyota (Smart Key System in Toyota parlance).

Toyota's had SKS available on the Prius since the 04 model year (same method of operation) but I'd imagine it's showed up on other (more expensive cars) prior to that.

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spike09
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Re: Why even have a "Start" button??!?

Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:16 am

I have personal experienced the down side of the Power button. I have left my LEAF on at least three times and on one occasion drained my battery completely.

This is also a common issue with the Volt. It is much more serious for them since the gas engine will automatically kick in to recharge the battery. There has already been a report of an owner finding exhaust fumes coming out of his garage.
This is not just confined to EV and Hybrids. Some modern engines are now very quiet at idle. Combine this with a keyless ignition and the results can be deadly.

Here are three cases I found:
February 2009 - Mary Rivera was left brain damaged and her partner, Ernest Codelia was killed after she left her Lexus sedan running in her garage.

August 2010 - Chastity Glisson found dead from CO poisoning when she left her 2006 Lexus IS 250 on in the garage beneath her three-story apartment. Her boyfriend was left with debilitating injuries.

March 2012 - Adele Ridless and Mort Victor both died when their Mercedes with keyless ignition was left running in their garage.

Another seriously morbid reason not to drive an ICE.
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cwerdna
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Re: Why even have a "Start" button??!?

Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:26 am

^^^
Although the subject is morbid, we've had similar arguments on Priuschat before (w/no help from a former troll who doesn't understand such systems (SKS in Toyota parlance) and added fuel to the fire). The bottom line is people should know the basics of operation of their vehicle, including audible and visual warnings.

SKS-equipped Priuses emit beeps if you close the door w/the power still on (and show an indication on the dash). My mom's Altima Hybrid does too. I'd imagine the Leaf does the same. Also, dashboard lights staying on should be another clue.

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