Oils4AsphaultOnly
Well-known member
jlv said:
*sigh* I don't disagree. I'm doing what I can to educate those newbies on the tesla forums.
Tesla's autopilot, on the road
- Thread starter edatoakrun
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*sigh* I don't disagree. I'm doing what I can to educate those newbies on the tesla forums.
GRA
Well-known member
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Yes, it is, and this has been widely covered so I'm surprised you'd claim that it isn't:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35785277/tesla-fsd-california-self-driving/
Then there's this:
https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/7/22424592/tesla-elon-musk-autopilot-dmv-fsd-exaggeration
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
If the people using autopilot put no one but themselves at risk, I wouldn't care - people have been killing themselves doing stupid things for a few million years, whether through inattention or misuse. But they're putting others at risk without their knowledge or consent, and that's unacceptable, especially when the company has the means to eliminate that risk but chooses not to.
GRA
Well-known member
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Everyone is a very long way from L5, but at least Waymo's attitude is that "we need to take this slow and not hurt or kill anyone if we can possibly help it," rather than saying "if no one was hurt, that's because of our system, if someone was hurt it's solely the driver's fault" ala' Tesla. WAYMO'S attitude is necessary so as not to turn the public off autonomous systems before they have a chance to mature. Personally, I don't much care about L5, what matters to me is L4 on limited-access freeways. Give me a reasonably functional AEB as a backup to myself for everything else - we know that works - the insurance companies have the data to prove it. Add blind spot monitoring etc. as the data shows its value, but make sure that you do everything possible to ensure driver engagement, until such time as the car can drive itself safely in given circumstances with the driver's hands/feet/mind off.
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Uh huh, but we can't be replacing them with an idiot computer driver.
cwerdna
Well-known member
To top it off, Tesla's definition of autopilot and what features are offered with each variant has been umm... a moving target.jlv said:
A Tesla driver in another forum says the table at https://www.currentautomotive.com/tesla-changes-autopilot-feature-availability/ is reasonably accurate.
jlv
Well-known member
That table does looks correct to me, but it makes me change my stance somewhat: to anyone who bought their first Tesla in the last 2 years, what they think of as "FSD" is what used to be called Autopilot.cwerdna said:
Sigh. I really despise Tesla marketing sometimes.
Oils4AsphaultOnly
Well-known member
GRA said:
Sorry, I mis-wrote.
Maybe this will clarify:
Autopilot feature sets are:
- TACC (traffic aware cruise control)
- Lane Keep Assist
- Automatic Emergency Braking
* Autopilot's feature set is different from Enhanced Autopilot, which was deprecated and replaced by the FSD feature set (after 2019).
FSD feature sets are:
- Navigate on Autopilot (the ability to determine which fork in the road to take)
- Auto Lane Change (needed in order to follow freeway interchanges)
- Autopark
- Summon
- Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control (essentially autopilot on surface streets)
The feature doing the actual driver's assistance on the highway is autopilot. FSD is dependent on autopilot's capabilities, but isn't the same thing as autopilot. That's what I meant by "Autopilot != FSD" and that "FSD isn't level 2 driver's assistance".
What Tesla legal wrote to government regulators was simply to clarify its *current* capabilities.
GRA
Well-known member
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Uh huh, which is why "Auto-Pilot" and especially "Full Self-Driving" are so misleading now, and why it looks like the boom may finally be lowered on Tesla. Long overdue.
GRA
Well-known member
Oils4AsphaultOnly
Well-known member
Hopefully this appeases the nannies out there and also solves the autopilot abuses: https://electrek.co/2021/05/27/tesla-releases-driver-monitoring-system-cabin-camera/
Hopefully Tesla Vision solves the stationary object highway crashes, then we can finally move on to the real discussion - when does FSD become statistically safer than human drivers?
Hopefully Tesla Vision solves the stationary object highway crashes, then we can finally move on to the real discussion - when does FSD become statistically safer than human drivers?
GRA
Well-known member
It's 5 years overdue (as of May 7th, the day Joshua Brown died in Williston, FL in 2016). Now they also need to limit A/P & FSD usage to roads that are within the ODD, and also make the systems adhere to speed limits when the cars are under computer control, or at least no more than the speed limit + 5 mph to allow them to move with the flow of (human-driver) traffic. At least, they need to be so limited until such time as ADS are the majority of systems out there and are demonstrably safer than humans, and we can allow them to travel faster while limiting human drivers to lower speeds.
GRA
Well-known member
Oils4AsphaultOnly
Well-known member
Teslas, and indirectly, Autopilot, had the lowest accident rate per 10,000 vehicles according to the UK Dept of Transport: https://www.rivervaleleasing.co.uk/blog/posts/which-cars-have-been-in-the-most-least-accidents
I wrote lowest, because the 7 closest brands to the Tesla in the list are practically garage queens that generally don't get driven in poor weather when accidents are more likely.
I wrote lowest, because the 7 closest brands to the Tesla in the list are practically garage queens that generally don't get driven in poor weather when accidents are more likely.
GRA
Well-known member
What, Morris and Austin are exotic brands now, instead of base models (think Minor, Mini)?
cwerdna
Well-known member
https://twitter.com/sascha_p/status/1400173874285744129?s=21 was posted at my work.
The brief video in https://twitter.com/fsd_in_6m/status/1400207129479352323?s=21 was a funny response.
jlv
Well-known member
Very odd phrasing. The "brief video" you mention is actually the full video, as noted in a comment in the Reddit thread this twitter noise was taken from. The post to you link on twitter took the original video and edited out the source of the bug.
The car is following a truck carrying traffic signals. This is the full video.
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/nrs8kf/you_think_ice_cream_truck_stop_signs_are_a_problem/
The car is following a truck carrying traffic signals. This is the full video.
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/nrs8kf/you_think_ice_cream_truck_stop_signs_are_a_problem/
Oils4AsphaultOnly
Well-known member
This is the reality of human driving errors: https://www.nevadaappeal.com/news/2021/jun/21/washoe-valley-woman-killed-cycling-crash/
Autopilot (and pretty much any ADAS except for GM supercruise - won't activate on that road) would've kept the Ford Edge within its lane and not crossed over into the other lane.
Boryana Straubel is the wife of former Tesla executive JB Straubel.
On average, 38,000 auto deaths per year in the US alone, most of them due to human driving/judgement error.
Autopilot (and pretty much any ADAS except for GM supercruise - won't activate on that road) would've kept the Ford Edge within its lane and not crossed over into the other lane.
Boryana Straubel is the wife of former Tesla executive JB Straubel.
On average, 38,000 auto deaths per year in the US alone, most of them due to human driving/judgement error.
The metric "It is better than a drunk or inattentive human" is insufficient. The very minimum standard should be "It's better and safer than the median human driver."
GRA
Well-known member
LeftieBiker said:
Indeed, especially when the system in question encourages drivers to be inattentive, and allows them to speed while doing so.
Oils4AsphaultOnly
Well-known member
LeftieBiker said:
I'm not advocating that the system is good and ready for actual self driving. I'm pointing out how quickly we need autonomous vehicles to be fully developed. Don't let the fear of failure inhibit the development of viable solutions. Much like how covid vaccines were fast-tracked because millions of lives were on the line. The side-effects were much more severe than other vaccines developed in the past, but the risks were accepted to save more lives down the line.
