Tesla's autopilot, on the road

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
LeftieBiker said:
The metric "It is better than a drunk or inattentive human" is insufficient. The very minimum standard should be "It's better and safer than the median human driver."

I'm not advocating that the system is good and ready for actual self driving. I'm pointing out how quickly we need autonomous vehicles to be fully developed. Don't let the fear of failure inhibit the development of viable solutions. Much like how covid vaccines were fast-tracked because millions of lives were on the line. The side-effects were much more severe than other vaccines developed in the past, but the risks were accepted to save more lives down the line.

To Leftie's point, I would still define "viable solution" as "better and safer than the median human driver". Drunk or inattentive is not the right standard. There is still a huge range around median and below where we would see improvement. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, but don't let the merely good be the enemy of the great. We are aiming for great here.

As to side-effects of the Covid vaccines, they were quite minor, no worse than other vaccines in the past, at least for those approved in the States. There is also the issue of Covid representing a vastly larger threat over time than car accidents, assuming that the virus will continue to mutate into more aggressive forms, and faster than otherwise, given how broadly it has spread. Might not be your best example. 36k dead in car accidents in 2019 in the US.
 
As to side-effects of the Covid vaccines, they were quite minor, no worse than other vaccines in the past, at least for those approved in the States.

The J&J vaccine was much worse for me, and for my housemate. I don't regret getting it, but I was sick most of the time for three weeks with it. I think that maybe those in poor health should avoid that one if possible.
 
My wife is still having problems a month later post the second Moderna shot. I think every shot interacts with each of us differently. It's a complete spin of the wheel. My son did have bad fever with his J&J shot, but he's a younger adult, so recovered quickly.
 
OT, but as for me (Moderna), I've had more serious side effects from flu shots. Aside from the usual three-day arm soreness after any intramuscular shot, I had mild fatigue for 1.5 days after the first shot, and nothing but the soreness after the second. Beats dying or major lung problems all to hell.

Back on-topic, no one here is advocating that AV development should be slow, but many of us want it to proceed with all deliberate speed, so that it doesn't put people at extra risk in typical situations compared to driving themselves. Not only is this bad for the individuals concerned, but it also affects public perception and willingness to allow continued testing and development. As, of course, does calling a system "Full Self-Driving" when it is nowhere near that. Oh, and there's absolutely no excuse for conducting beta testing on public roads using members of the public as system monitors.
 
Oh, and there's absolutely no excuse for conducting beta testing on public roads using members of the public as system monitors.

Yes, I was going to add that as I was reading your post. No need now. Musk appears to have a "Wild West" attitude about things like product safety and government oversight. It isn't comforting.
 
GRA said:
OT, but as for me (Moderna), I've had more serious side effects from flu shots. Aside from the usual three-day arm soreness after any intramuscular shot, I had mild fatigue for 1.5 days after the first shot, and nothing but the soreness after the second. Beats dying or major lung problems all to hell.

Back on-topic, no one here is advocating that AV development should be slow, but many of us want it to proceed with all deliberate speed, so that it doesn't put people at extra risk in typical situations compared to driving themselves. Not only is this bad for the individuals concerned, but it also affects public perception and willingness to allow continued testing and development. As, of course, does calling a system "Full Self-Driving" when it is nowhere near that. Oh, and there's absolutely no excuse for conducting beta testing on public roads using members of the public as system monitors.

Time will show that Tesla will have the safest self-driving system and have it out years before the competitors. Waymo's method (seen by the anti-Tesla crowd as the most advanced system) is not rapidly scalable and would take decades to implement globally. Just because you have a preference for how things are done, doesn't mean that's the best (or even viable) way.
 
Time will show that Tesla will have the safest self-driving system and have it out years before the competitors. Waymo's method (seen by the anti-Tesla crowd as the most advanced system) is not rapidly scalable and would take decades to implement globally. Just because you have a preference for how things are done, doesn't mean that's the best (or even viable) way.

The above sounds like an endorsement of beta testing on highways, using unskilled testers. If so, I just can't agree with that. Also, what exactly is wrong with taking a decade (multiple decades is unlikely) to implement a complex self-driving system..?
 
LeftieBiker said:
Time will show that Tesla will have the safest self-driving system and have it out years before the competitors. Waymo's method (seen by the anti-Tesla crowd as the most advanced system) is not rapidly scalable and would take decades to implement globally. Just because you have a preference for how things are done, doesn't mean that's the best (or even viable) way.

The above sounds like an endorsement of beta testing on highways, using unskilled testers. If so, I just can't agree with that. Also, what exactly is wrong with taking a decade (multiple decades is unlikely) to implement a complex self-driving system..?

38,000 lives * 10 years = 380,000 lives per decade is what's wrong. There is a price to be paid for inaction as well.
 
I don't think anyone's mind is likely to be changed, here. Maybe we can all agree that Tesla would be regarded with less suspicion if Elon Musk weren't calling the shots...?
 
LeftieBiker said:
I don't think anyone's mind is likely to be changed, here. Maybe we can all agree that Tesla would be regarded with less suspicion if Elon Musk weren't calling the shots...?

Agree with no one's mind being changed anytime soon.

Disagree with the less suspicion of Tesla, since it's Andrej Karpathy who's leading the development. SpaceX doesn't seem to have any issues with Gwynne Shotwell leading the show despite both companies having Elon at the helm. Perception isn't reality, despite its ability to shape reality. For better or worse, the perception of Tesla is heavily skewed with almost no middle ground.
 
ABG:
Tesla Model 3 is once again a top safety pick
Consumer Reports and the IIHS restore the electric car's safety status

https://www.autoblog.com/2021/06/29/tesla-model-3-top-safety-pick/


Tesla's Model 3 has regained its top safety pick designations from two key groups after losing them recently.

Last month Consumer Reports pulled its “Top Pick” status for Tesla’s Model 3 and Y vehicles built after April 27, while the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety planned to remove the vehicles’ “Top Safety Pick Plus” designation.

The U.S. government’s National Highway Traffic Safety Administration was no longer giving the Models 3 and Y check marks on its website for having forward collision warning, automatic emergency braking, lane departure warning and emergency brake support. That prompted the ratings groups’ actions. Both require electronic safety systems for the top safety designations.

But on Tuesday the IIHS said that it recently completed new evaluations of the camera-based front crash prevention system that comes with certain Tesla Model 3 vehicles. The camera-only system earned a superior rating for vehicle-to-vehicle front crash prevention and an advanced rating for pedestrian front crash prevention. The group said that the new ratings mean that the 2021 “Top Safety Pick Plus" extends to all Model 3s. IIHS hasn't completed tests of the 2021 Tesla Model Y.

Consumer Reports said that due to IIHS' recent evaluations of Tesla’s new camera-based system on its Model 3 and Consumer Reports' prior integration of IIHS ratings into its recommendations, it was restoring its Top Pick rating to the Model 3. . . .
 
San Lorenzo family blames Tesla Autopilot for crash that killed teen son: lawsuit
https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/san-lorenzo-family-files-lawsuit-against-tesla-blaming-autopilot-for-crash-that-killed-teen-son/

Bay Area Family Suing Tesla Blames Son’s Death On Nascent Autopilot Technology
https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2021/07/06/bay-area-family-suing-tesla-blames-sons-death-nascent-autopilot-technology/ - has a clip. Skip to about 0:40.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
A reminder that autopilot is still a hands on system.

https://youtu.be/01fiI7ZwC6M
LOL. Too bad it's in French and I had to use Google/Youtube auto-translated CC from French to kinda get what he was talking about.
 
cwerdna said:
San Lorenzo family blames Tesla Autopilot for crash that killed teen son: lawsuit
https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/san-lorenzo-family-files-lawsuit-against-tesla-blaming-autopilot-for-crash-that-killed-teen-son/

Bay Area Family Suing Tesla Blames Son’s Death On Nascent Autopilot Technology
https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2021/07/06/bay-area-family-suing-tesla-blames-sons-death-nascent-autopilot-technology/ - has a clip. Skip to about 0:40.

That's rather odd, since AP will definitely track a moving vehicle. I've had AP suddenly slow down on the freeway, because a car in the next lane pointed their car into my lane (without signaling) only to go back into their lane.

I think the Tesla driver wasn't paying attention or had dozed off (without AP on).
 
Someone at my work posted https://twitter.com/giacaglia/status/1414605317841702914?s=20
"I went through videos of the new Tesla FSD Beta 9.0 in which Tesla got rid of Radar data to make Autopilot to be more reliable in the long run

Here are 11 scenarios that it fails" with a thread." I watched all those 11 videos. Most are pretty short.

A response at https://twitter.com/AdamsBunnyranch/status/1414692573592031232?s=20 was "But for a Long time Tesla used Radar and it helped. They scraped it for cost and supply chain reasons.

Elon is the Vapoware King". He links to a great page that TIL of: https://elonmusk.today/#robotaxi-network.
 
IEVS:
This Road In Yosemite Is Causing Teslas On Autopilot To Crash

https://insideevs.com/news/525448/yosemite-road-tesla-autopilot-crash/


The location is at the junction of Northside Drive and El Capitan Drive, heading west. Apparently 5 Teslas on A/P have crashed there, going straight instead of veering left. El Capitan Drive allows you to crossover to Southside Drive and return back east if heading west, or vice-versa. North- and South-side drives make up a one-way loop.
 
GRA said:
IEVS:
This Road In Yosemite Is Causing Teslas On Autopilot To Crash

https://insideevs.com/news/525448/yosemite-road-tesla-autopilot-crash/


The location is at the junction of Northside Drive and El Capitan Drive, heading west. Apparently 5 Teslas on A/P have crashed there, going straight instead of veering left. El Capitan Drive allows you to crossover to Southside Drive and return back east if heading west, or vice-versa. North- and South-side drives make up a one-way loop.

That sucked. From the dashcam footage, it looked like the car was relying on the right lane markings, which got covered by the dirt/glare. Poor lane markings (as well as shadows and stationary objects on the highway) are the achilles heel of autopilot.
 
I had to do some digging to find the footage. It's available via https://www.reddit.com/user/BBFLG/. Right now, it's the 2nd file at https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1DOUTxEFAPOOntYueLJmGv3drxOsWkoJn, near the end of that video.
 
Back
Top