goldbrick
Posts: 809
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: Autonomous Vehicles, LEAF and others...

Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:52 am

I'm not expecting an automobile utopia but I'd be distressed if/when self-driving vehicles hit the streets if 1) they don't obey the speed limits and 2) they couldn't accurately determine another car's velocity and direction.

Obviously, nothing is going to save a bicyclist who suddenly swerves in front a passing car or a motorist who has a rock fall on them while driving in the mountains, etc. but I'd say this article sets the self-driving performance bar too low.

GaleHawkins
Posts: 320
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:24 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Oct 2019
Leaf Number: 311365
Location: Murray KY

Re: Autonomous Vehicles, LEAF and others...

Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:09 pm

In 20 years if most cars are autonomous and aware/communicating with other vehicles then accident prevention may be easier to achieve.

GRA
Posts: 11910
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Autonomous Vehicles, LEAF and others...

Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:25 pm

If wishes were horses, everyone could ride. This is one of the reasons why many of us fault Tesla for allowing A/P to be used at speeds well over the limit, when they have complete ability to prevent that, and we also fault NHTSA/DOT for not prohibiting it.

As virtually all traffic accidents involve violating one or more traffic laws, if autonomously driven vehicles are allowed to violate them any safety improvement compared to humans will, as noted above, be far less than it could and should be.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GaleHawkins
Posts: 320
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:24 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Oct 2019
Leaf Number: 311365
Location: Murray KY

Re: Autonomous Vehicles, LEAF and others...

Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:03 pm

GRA wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:25 pm
If wishes were horses, everyone could ride. This is one of the reasons why many of us fault Tesla for allowing A/P to be used at speeds well over the limit, when they have complete ability to prevent that, and we also fault NHTSA/DOT for not prohibiting it.

As virtually all traffic accidents involve violating one or more traffic laws, if autonomously driven vehicles are allowed to violate them any safety improvement compared to humans will, as noted above, be far less than it could and should be.
Kind of like lockdowns and social distancing not everyone is for governments doing all of our thinking for us.

salyavin
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:51 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Dec 2019
Leaf Number: 318726
Location: Littleton , CO

Re: Autonomous Vehicles, LEAF and others...

Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:20 am

If people keep individually owning cars and being required to commute to work then with every increasing traffic we may need self driving just to help with traffic https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/11 ... affic-jams https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2019/1 ... congestion This is just to help with road capacity issues. If you can then send it home or to go charge or whatever it can help with parking capacity as well.

GRA
Posts: 11910
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Autonomous Vehicles, LEAF and others...

Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:33 pm

GaleHawkins wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:03 pm
GRA wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:25 pm
If wishes were horses, everyone could ride. This is one of the reasons why many of us fault Tesla for allowing A/P to be used at speeds well over the limit, when they have complete ability to prevent that, and we also fault NHTSA/DOT for not prohibiting it.

As virtually all traffic accidents involve violating one or more traffic laws, if autonomously driven vehicles are allowed to violate them any safety improvement compared to humans will, as noted above, be far less than it could and should be.
Kind of like lockdowns and social distancing not everyone is for governments doing all of our thinking for us.

In a society, the government (should) represent that society as a whole, and we agree that rules are necessary not to protect us from the consequences of our actions, but to protect others who haven't given their consent to being put at risk by us. No company should have the power to make that decision for society en masse, which is why societies/governments regulate behavior.

If you choose to drunk drive on private land where no one else is put at risk, be my guest, but you don't get to choose to do so on public roads where you might kill others without getting their consent. As it's impossible to ask every random person who might be impacted at some time in every circumstance when very large numbers of people are involved, we give or withold consent via government action, which (should) represent the views of that society.

No human society is perfect, but unless everyone lives a completely solitary life where no action of theirs can have any impact on anyone else, there have to be some generally agreed rules that will inevitably prevent complete freedom of action by all. We can and do argue as a society about just how far those rules should go, but the basic principle holds.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 11910
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Autonomous Vehicles, LEAF and others...

Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:42 am

GCR:
Ford Active Drive
Assist vs. Tesla Autopilot: How the systems might compare

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... ot-compare


L2, mapped divided highways only (yay!), driver attention camera (yay!), hands-free allowed (boo!).
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

User avatar
jlv
Moderator
Posts: 1338
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2014
Leaf Number: 424487
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Autonomous Vehicles, LEAF and others...

Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:18 am

How restrictive that it only works on highways pre-mapped by Ford. Thankfully my cars will never be hobbled by such a system.

Then again, it's probably also hard-baked into the car, much like Nissan's ProPilot and Tesla's AP1. Meaning what the car does the day you buy it is all it will ever be able to do.
LEAF '13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17, sold 11/18) 34K mi, AHr 58, SOH 87%
Tesla S 75D (3/17)
Tesla X 100D (12/18)
93K 100% BEV miles since '14
ICE free since '18

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1624
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Autonomous Vehicles, LEAF and others...

Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:35 am

I was surprised that I was able to use propilot on un-divided single lane each way highways (not freeways) in Iowa last year.
2019 S Plus (98.6% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.6% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh

User avatar
jlv
Moderator
Posts: 1338
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2014
Leaf Number: 424487
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Autonomous Vehicles, LEAF and others...

Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:22 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:35 am
I was surprised that I was able to use propilot on un-divided single lane each way highways (not freeways) in Iowa last year.
That's the type of road I tried it on in my test drive 2 years ago. ProPilot is vision based and isn't limited to pre-mapped roads.
LEAF '13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17, sold 11/18) 34K mi, AHr 58, SOH 87%
Tesla S 75D (3/17)
Tesla X 100D (12/18)
93K 100% BEV miles since '14
ICE free since '18

Return to “Off-Topic”