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Boomer23
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Re: Anyone into electric cycling?

Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:03 pm

I did a 25 mile ride to the beach and back today. Mostly flat, with a few hills. Averaged 13.4 mph and used 60% of the battery, so an estimated 42 mile total range in pedal-assist mode.

Just for fun, while riding I did a couple of energy efficiency calculations. My ride today, using pedal assist yielded 106 miles/kWh. The bike is rated at a 20 mile range on throttle only (no pedaling), which would be 50.5 mi/kWh. That last figure is the one that compares most readily with an EV's efficiency. So my e-bike is more than ten times more efficient than my LEAF, even if I were not to pedal the bike.

Of course, a completely human-powered bike is infinitely more efficient than an EV (if you ignore food energy), so whatever. :lol:
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GRA
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Re: Anyone into electric cycling?

Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:48 pm

Boomer23 wrote:I did a 25 mile ride to the beach and back today. Mostly flat, with a few hills. Averaged 13.4 mph and used 60% of the battery, so an estimated 42 mile total range in pedal-assist mode.

Just for fun, while riding I did a couple of energy efficiency calculations. My ride today, using pedal assist yielded 106 miles/kWh. The bike is rated at a 20 mile range on throttle only (no pedaling), which would be 50.5 mi/kWh. That last figure is the one that compares most readily with an EV's efficiency. So my e-bike is more than ten times more efficient than my LEAF, even if I were not to pedal the bike.
Fantastic! Glad you're able to get out and about on a bike again, and are having a blast. Who knows, after riding it for a while you may decide you're willing/able to do it all yourself, at least when riding for exercise/recreation. There's an article in the October Bicycling about a guy who does both, and why. Can't find it right now, but will post the reference when I can.
Boomer23 wrote: Of course, a completely human-powered bike is infinitely more efficient than an EV (if you ignore food energy), so whatever. :lol:
Not that much (compared to an e-bike):

http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/with ... _128.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Look down near the bottom left of the chart. I have seen it claimed ("Electric Bicycles: A Guide to Design and Use"; by Manchin, William C.; 2006) that an e-bike is more efficient energy-wise than a human-powered one, but it really depends on how far your food is transported. Good thing I have a farmer's market 4 blocks from me on the weekend, and live within 50 miles of the Central and Salinas Valleys so most of my food doesn't come very far.
Last edited by GRA on Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

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spike09
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Re: Anyone into electric cycling?

Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:56 pm

Here are a few pics I collected on Pinterest.

http://pinterest.com/spike09/electric-bicycles/
Last edited by spike09 on Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Boomer23
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Re: Anyone into electric cycling?

Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:34 pm

spike09 wrote:Here are a few pics I collected on Pinterest.

http://pinterest.com/spike09/electric-bikes/

Nice! I particularly like the Polaris Vector and the Specialized. I'm partial to nicely integrated designs with the battery pack hidden within a tube.
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abasile
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Re: Anyone into electric cycling?

Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:40 pm

The ultimate for me would be a road bicycle that performs well without electric assist, allowing it to be ridden as a traditional bicycle for the majority of its miles, including on a 45 mph mountain descent. It would need to have a large enough battery pack to assist me in doing a 5000' mountain climb in much less time than the ~ 2 hours it currently takes me on my non-assisted bicycle. As that climb takes place over about 16 miles, an e-bike should legally (at least in theory) be able to do it in well under an hour. An electric motorcycle would not be an acceptable alternative, as I do want to get significant exercise.

I'm afraid, however, that the energy density of current lithium ion batteries is not great enough to support what I'm asking for, at least at a semi-affordable price point. So my solution on many days is to ride my bicycle partway up the mountain, and have my wife pick me up in the LEAF. That way I don't take forever to get home at the end of the workday, and my wife gets to use the LEAF during the day, in the cool mountain air. :-)
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Boomer23
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Re: Anyone into electric cycling?

Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:49 pm

abasile wrote:The ultimate for me would be a road bicycle that performs well without electric assist, allowing it to be ridden as a traditional bicycle for the majority of its miles, including on a 45 mph mountain descent. It would need to have a large enough battery pack to assist me in doing a 5000' mountain climb in much less time than the ~ 2 hours it currently takes me on my non-assisted bicycle. As that climb takes place over about 16 miles, an e-bike should legally (at least in theory) be able to do it in well under an hour. An electric motorcycle would not be an acceptable alternative, as I do want to get significant exercise.

I'm afraid, however, that the energy density of current lithium ion batteries is not great enough to support what I'm asking for, at least at a semi-affordable price point. So my solution on many days is to ride my bicycle partway up the mountain, and have my wife pick me up in the LEAF. That way I don't take forever to get home at the end of the workday, and my wife gets to use the LEAF during the day, in the cool mountain air. :-)
You have my unceasing admiration for being capable of such a climb, or for even considering it possible. :o

We've met and you don't resemble a Tour de France winner, but you obviously have some of that grit, determination and stamina. My helmet is off to you, abasile!
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Boomer23
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Re: Anyone into electric cycling?

Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:02 pm

abasile wrote:The ultimate for me would be a road bicycle that performs well without electric assist, allowing it to be ridden as a traditional bicycle for the majority of its miles, including on a 45 mph mountain descent. It would need to have a large enough battery pack to assist me in doing a 5000' mountain climb in much less time than the ~ 2 hours it currently takes me on my non-assisted bicycle. As that climb takes place over about 16 miles, an e-bike should legally (at least in theory) be able to do it in well under an hour. An electric motorcycle would not be an acceptable alternative, as I do want to get significant exercise.

I'm afraid, however, that the energy density of current lithium ion batteries is not great enough to support what I'm asking for, at least at a semi-affordable price point. So my solution on many days is to ride my bicycle partway up the mountain, and have my wife pick me up in the LEAF. That way I don't take forever to get home at the end of the workday, and my wife gets to use the LEAF during the day, in the cool mountain air. :-)

Some of the newer e-bikes might be close to your ideal. The more serious frames should be able to handle a downhill speed such as that, and many of them offer brake regen to keep your pack full for the return trip. For the uphill portion, mine is rated at up to 45 miles in pedal-assist on flat ground, with hill climbing performance depending on hill steepness, speed and rider weight. I think you might well be able to do such a 16 mile climb on a full charge. My bike (Stromer) was designed in Switzerland with that kind of climbing in mind.
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abasile
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Re: Anyone into electric cycling?

Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:28 pm

Boomer23 wrote:Some of the newer e-bikes might be close to your ideal. The more serious frames should be able to handle a downhill speed such as that, and many of them offer brake regen to keep your pack full for the return trip. For the uphill portion, mine is rated at up to 45 miles in pedal-assist on flat ground, with hill climbing performance depending on hill steepness, speed and rider weight. I think you might well be able to do such a 16 mile climb on a full charge. My bike (Stromer) was designed in Switzerland with that kind of climbing in mind.
That's very interesting, and thanks for the compliments! Switzerland has my kind of terrain... :-) With the shorter days, I won't be able to ride up the mountain a whole lot, but I'll have to re-visit this option come Spring. And I should mention that part of my initial motivation to bike to my new job down the mountain, aside from the exercise which I enjoy, was to keep the LEAF out of the valley summer heat as much as possible.
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KeiJidosha
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Re: Anyone into electric cycling?

Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:35 pm

abasile wrote:…a large enough battery pack to assist me in doing a 5000' mountain climb in much less time than the ~ 2 hours it currently takes me on my non-assisted bicycle...
350Wh to lift 200# bike + rider 5,000 feet in addition to Wh for equivalent speed and distance on level ground.
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abasile
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Re: Anyone into electric cycling?

Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:52 pm

KeiJidosha wrote:350Wh to lift 200# bike + rider 5,000 feet in addition to Wh for equivalent speed and distance on level ground.
In my case the total weight would be significantly higher, but my body can supply the energy for 20 mph on level ground. Figure on 0.5 kWh of capacity needed, minimum. That could be 15 lbs. of batteries, plus other hardware. Keeping the total weight of the bicycle under about 50 lbs. might be acceptable. Compared to my Cannondale R-800 it would feel like a tank, but maybe not too bad overall.
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LEAF battery: 9/12 bars and < 49 Ah (-28% vs. new)
Tesla battery: 250+ miles of range (-5% vs. new)

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