My Nissan Leaf Forum

EVDRIVER wrote:Same idiot driver new day. You can't stop fools from driving like this and she likely was distracted and abusing the AP system. AP is not designed to stop at lights regardless. This is not a AP issue it's a user stupidity issue...

What a waste of government resources, to investigate the accident before coming to a conclusion...

A Tesla Crash In Utah Is Under Investigation By U.S. Safety Regulators

The National Highway Traffic and Safety Administration confirmed Wednesday that it has sent a team of special crash investigators to look into a Tesla Model S that plowed into a fire department vehicle in Utah while its semi-autonomous driving system Autopilot was engaged.

This is the latest investigation by federal regulators into recent accidents involving Tesla vehicles...

http://fortune.com/2018/05/16/tesla-cra ... ion-nhtsa/

Speaking of operator error though, if my last post on this thead (and those by others?) were removed intentionally by a moderator, please comply with MNL policy and explain why.

(edit) The words below are not mine and were added to this post by another-presumably a moderator.

Investigating is not a waste of time but it seems Tesla gets all the attention while cars crash hourly. If you look at many accidents that involve famous people or companies like Tesla they get the NTSB investigation and many others go with no such investigation other than local police.

Please edit any quote(s) below and remove this statement.

Something odd as my reply is not there and it shows in my log I deleted a post but I have not as far as I know. I only delete spam and duplicates, period.

edatoakrun wrote:

EVDRIVER wrote:Same idiot driver new day. You can't stop fools from driving like this and she likely was distracted and abusing the AP system. AP is not designed to stop at lights regardless. This is not a AP issue it's a user stupidity issue...

What a waste of government resources, to investigate the accident before coming to a conclusion...

A Tesla Crash In Utah Is Under Investigation By U.S. Safety Regulators

The National Highway Traffic and Safety Administration confirmed Wednesday that it has sent a team of special crash investigators to look into a Tesla Model S that plowed into a fire department vehicle in Utah while its semi-autonomous driving system Autopilot was engaged.

This is the latest investigation by federal regulators into recent accidents involving Tesla vehicles...

http://fortune.com/2018/05/16/tesla-cra ... ion-nhtsa/

Speaking of operator error though, if my last post on this thead (and those by others?) were removed intentionally by a moderator, please comply with MNL policy and explain why.


Investigating is not a waste of time but it seems Tesla gets all the attention while cars crash hourly. If you look at many accidents that involve famous people or companies like Tesla they get the NTSB investigation and many others go with no such investigation other than local police.

No one says they should not investigate but it seems the facts are already not in her favor. Here is an important fact, she should never have been using autopilot on that road, period. This would be clear to any Tesla owner with any brain power however there are plenty with none so again AP must be the culprit even if the driver is negligent. Just like suing Mc Donalds for spilling hot coffee in your lap stupid people love to blame others. Tesla and celebrities seem to attract the NTSB while other accidents are far worse and suspect. Seems the EV car systems are always to blame for driver incompetence or negligence. Where are we on the Bolt that drove in a living room while no one was in the car? I guess living rooms are out of the NTSB jurisdiction unfortunately. How is it so many EVs drive into houses and buildings on their own? I think we know why...Same reason people now die of carbon monoxide poisoning because they don't turn their car off with new keyless ignitions. Cars fault of course! better ban keyless ignitions now. Perhaps people can learn the difference between the pedals on their cars.

EVDRIVER wrote:Same idiot driver new day. You can't stop fools from driving like this and she likely was distracted and abusing the AP system. AP is not designed to stop at lights regardless. This is not a AP issue it's a user stupidity issue. People are even at more risk with texting, we should make sell phones unusable in cars for texting and browsing, that would be even better. This media nonsense is so sensationalized, a good solution is IQ tests at the DMV. How about a Tesla idiot driver hall of fame? There are plenty of idiots driving Teslas that have no business behind the wheel and unfortunately I meet them at SC stations all the time and if you get a Tesla you likely will as well. I asked one guy how he even got a license based on his idiotic action of pulling his car in and out of the SC parking spot repeatedly for fun while his friend watched and others were waiting to charge. He was using the summon mode of course.

Yet Tesla continues to allow drivers to act in this fashion, when they have the power to prevent it:

Some automakers, such as Cadillac, have driver assist systems that only function if maps indicate that the vehicle is traveling on a route, typically a highway, that is compatible with a car taking over some driving duties.

They shortened the hands-off period after the Brown crash, but as I wrote then it was still far too long to keep drivers engaged, as the details of this accident demonstrate. I think 3 seconds hands-off is the max. time that should be allowed by any so-called* "semi-autonomous" system. It's not at all surprising that we're hearing now that Tesla got complaints about 'A/P nagging' from customers, but if they were really serious about customer safety they'd tell them "tough - keep your hands on the wheel and you'll never get nagged". Stupid humans will always be with us, but that's no excuse for a company acting as an enabler of that stupidity, when they have the power to prevent it.

No arguments about cell phones, although it's a bit tricky as non-driving passengers can also use them, so how would you tell who it was in the vehicle? You'd need some sort of proximity device that detected that you were in the driver's seat. Personally, I turn off my phone before I get in the car, and it stays off until I stop driving (and most of the rest of the time, for that matter; I don't want anyone thinking I'm always at their beck and call whenever it's convenient to them).


*To me, "semi-autonomous" is like "semi-pregnant". There's no such thing.

To me semi-stupid people are still stupid people but most of these are super stupid. Perhaps they should not act that way, it’s not Tesla’s job to watch over idiots. When will people start taking responsibility for doing stupid things? Guess what, if you let your hands off the wheel in any car long enough it will crash but people will find a way to sue car makers or even Apple for allowing them
to text when driving. Got to love the USA.sure is easy to blame Tesla for the accidents but not for all the ones that don’t happen over millions of miles.

EVDRIVER wrote:To me semi-stupid people are still stupid people but most of these are super stupid. Perhaps they should not act that way, it’s not Tesla’s job to watch over idiots. When will people start taking responsibility for doing stupid things? Guess what, if you let your hands off the wheel in any car long enough it will crash but people will find a way to sue car makers or even Apple for allowing them
to text when driving. Got to love the USA.sure is easy to blame Tesla for the accidents but not for all the ones that don’t happen over millions of miles.

To me, the assessment of responsibility is very simple. If the car wasn't being driven by A/P, then the driver would be solely at fault. Since the car was being driven by A/P, while the driver bears the ultimate responsibility for choosing to use it, Tesla also bears responsibility for allowing it to be used in a way likely to lead to an accident (this was certainly an example of this). Tesla can't have it both ways (much as they'd like to), claiming that A/P is responsible for avoiding accidents, while simultaneously saying that any accidents which do occur while A/P is driving the car are solely the driver's fault.

When used properly...... That's the key. Same with safety belts but not when they are wrapped around your neck and just because they are "on". When any product is used as not intended it changes the parameters. You don't use auto pilot on surface streets with signals and stops, parking garages, parking lots. etc. Not sure why turning it on changes the parameters but STUPID people that don't follow directions with any product often get hurt or hurt others. Try using a BBQ in your house, people do that as well but it says not do use indoors. Don't deep fry a turkey that is frozen, people do and burn down their houses every year and it's the frying pans manufacturers fault right? Complete nonsense perfected here in the USA.

EVDRIVER wrote:When used properly...... That's the key. Same with safety belts but not when they are wrapped around your neck and just because they are "on". When any product is used as not intended it changes the parameters. You don't use auto pilot on surface streets with signals and stops, parking garages, parking lots. etc.

But Tesla specially allows drivers to do that, that unlike Cadillac, which only allows Super-Cruise to used on limited-access highways that they have adequately mapped.

EVDRIVER wrote:Not sure why turning it on changes the parameters but STUPID people that don't follow directions with any product often get hurt or hurt others.

Where does Tesla say you can't use A/P in the circumstances you just described (even though they allow you to do so)? Again, they have the ability to prevent that, but choose not to.

EVDRIVER wrote:Try using a BBQ in your house, people do that as well but it says not do use indoors. Don't deep fry a turkey that is frozen, people do and burn down their houses every year and it's the frying pans manufacturers fault right? Complete nonsense perfected here in the USA> .

Hardly the same situation, now is it? After all, the only people likely to be killed are those inside the house, similar to any occupants in a Tesla. I'm not worried about their stupidity affecting them - it's when their stupidity is likely to affect others who aren't a party to the behavior that the authorities need to get involved, and a car driving itself at 60 mph on a surface street and plowing into the rear of a stopped vehicle that it's unable to detect certainly qualifies. Good thing for Tesla that so far it hasn't been a gasoline (or hydrogen if you prefer) tanker, or a school bus.

Analogies, You can't restrict AP to certain conditions until there is more external control to do so and by then it would likely be moot. The system is safe when used properly just like anything else. End of story.

EVDRIVER wrote:Analogies, You can't restrict AP to certain conditions until there is more external control to do so and by then it would likely be moot. The system is safe when used properly just like anything else. End of story.

Please try to moderate properly, and correct the erroneous quote in your post.

I'll try repost the improperly deleted content tomorrow.

See first post on this page...