WetEV
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Mars Is a Hellhole

Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:36 am

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... th/618133/
Mars Is a Hellhole

Colonizing the red planet is a ridiculous way to help humanity.
Last edited by WetEV on Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
WetEV
#49
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frontrangeleaf
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:06 am

WetEV wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:36 am
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... th/618133/
Mars Is a Hellhole

Colonizing the red planet is a ridiculous way to help humanity.
Too true. If the body public had any notion of just how hostile Mars is compared to Earth, we'd be having a different discussion entirely about space exploration. A day on Mars makes overwintering in Antartica seem like a beach vacation on a sunny tropical island.

Colonize Mars? Whatever. Good luck with that. Talk to me in 100 years when we have the technology to do so more affordably. If you're still so inclined. Colonizing Mars today is like the Vikings colonizing North America in 1000 AD. They got here. Didn't stay long.

There is no planet B. Better be taking care of planet A.

***

Explore Mars robotically to better understand the conditions that prevailed on Earth while life was evolving here? Heck ya. That's a worthwhile project. Mars preserves conditions such as they existed on both Earth and Mars in that critical time far better than Earth has... because life on Earth happened.

It may have happened there too. Likely did. Might still be there. Perseverance will investigate Jezero Crater and with it one of 2 leading theories of how life here got started. We should also be making a similar effort in Eridania Basin to investigate the other. It might be that both are viable. Mars just might tell us.

***

OK, so OT, back to Teslas, LOL.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:51 pm

I think that all of the science fiction movies that have been made that postulate little habitable micro-climates in the Big Valley on Mars have skewed perceptions of what is and isn't possible there in the way of human habitation. Further, it is likely that what is actually driving the rush to colonize Mars is resource exploitation, not altruism. Musk is the kind of "altruist" who lets slip every now and then what's really going on in his head, as evidenced by how he treats his workforce...
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EatsShootsandLeafs
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:04 pm

I hope they put a human on mars in my lifetime but as far as "colonizing" it I can't imagine it would be done even in a hundred years. What is even the point? Its environment is completely unhospitable and it lacks most natural resources we rely on as well. Earth could literally be in the middle of a brutal nuclear winter and it would still be massively more accommodating to human life. They may very well have a base there but as for it being self-sufficient indefinitely probably never going to happen.

GRA
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Sat Mar 06, 2021 7:07 pm

I seem to have missed the post that started the Mars thread, but Elon's a fan of Kim Stanley Robinson's award-winning (Hugo, Nebula) sci-fi Mars Trilogy ("Red Mars", "Green Mars", "Blue Mars"), which assumes large scale terraforming over centuries, including thickening and changing the composition of the atmosphere, now a very thin layer of mostly CO2, through the use of bio-engineered plants, boosting temps through various measures, etc. It also involves lots of autonomous robotic construction machines, often self-replicating, to do most of the mining, processing, construction etc. (and you thought Autopilot was an end in itself ;) ) and various other techs we either don't have yet or are just starting to develop. Initially, habitation is largely underground for protection from radiation, later craters are domed. Well worth the read: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_trilogy

Jeff Bezos is another fan.

BTW, Robinson himself takes a dim view of the "Mars as a lifeboat", idea, and there's also the near certainty that terraforming to the extent required would take thousands if not tens if thousands of years, even assuming the tech existed. Here's an excerpt if an interview he did with Bloomberg - the full interview is behind a paywall: http://www.parabolicarc.com/2016/10/17/ ... lievable/

Somewhat more on-topic for this forum is Robinson's "New York 2140", about NYC transformed into a super Venice thanks to AGCC-caused sea-level rise: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_2140
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coleafrado2
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:49 am

It wouldn't take ten thousand years -- it wouldn't work at all. There isn't enough accessible carbon on and inside the entire planet (including gasifying the top few km of the surface) to make even 1/10 bar. Water vapor isn't stable at those pressures/temperatures either. Elon is happy to deny the facts to keep the gravy train going, though; worked for America's last favorite guy, till people started paying attention (and dying).
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LeftieBiker
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:25 am

The generally accepted way to terraform Mars would be to steer comets from the outer system into collisions with it.
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:15 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:25 am
The generally accepted way to terraform Mars would be to steer comets from the outer system into collisions with it.
That and move/mine asteroids for elements lacking on Mars. There's also the large lens that Robinson postulated being built in space and parked between Mars and the sun to boost insolation, and thus temps and photosynthesis.

Then there's a space elevator, which allows a huge reduction of payload-to/from orbit energy costs, Robinson tethers it on the south edge of the summit crater on Pavonis Mons, a location both high and on the Martian equator. Here on earth Mt. Chimborazo in Ecuador has been postulated as a tether site for similar reasons.

There seems to be some dispute about whether current materials (Kevlar) have the necessary strength-to-weight ratio for Martian gravity (0.38 earth), or whether some nanotube-based material would be needed. A space elevator definitely isn't possible here yet given the available materials.
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:27 pm

For those wondering what a "space elevator" is, it's a truly Nifty as yet un-built device: you park a space station or even just a big rock in synchronous orbit above one spot on a planet or moon, then stretch a tether between the two points. Then, instead of having to launch things into orbit, you can just 'winch' them up and down the tether in an elevator - or a hundred elevators. As noted you need a stronger material for the tether than we currently have in production.
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coleafrado2
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Re: TSLA corporate outlook

Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:31 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:27 pm
For those wondering what a "space elevator" is, it's a truly Nifty as yet un-built device: you park a space station or even just a big rock in synchronous orbit above one spot on a planet or moon, then stretch a tether between the two points. Then, instead of having to launch things into orbit, you can just 'winch' them up and down the tether in an elevator - or a hundred elevators. As noted you need a stronger material for the tether than we currently have in production.
in other words, a straw.
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